Why Parents are Embracing the Sober-Curious Movement

Jane Ballard (00:04.878)
everyone doing? I am so glad you're joining me today for this episode of Mindful Sobriety. It's me Jane, just solo today, and today's interview is going to be a little bit of a different structure. I received a request for an interview from a health writer, Melissa Daly.

who writes for the bump.com and she sent me several different interview questions for an article that she is working on. The article is about why the next generation of parents are embracing this over curious movement. And I decided to make this into a podcast episode because I think the questions that she had are excellent. And I think that a lot of people are gonna be able to relate.

this conversation, especially if you are a parent or you are planning to become a parent or trying to conceive at the moment. So let's get to it. In the first question, she says, reports show Gen Z and millennial parents are drinking less amidst a growing sober curious movement. Have you witnessed this and do you see it as a current trend or more of a fundamental shift?

That's a great question. So do I see this? Have I witnessed this? The answer to that is yes, I have to a degree.

Mommy wine culture, alcohol culture, parent survival through alcohol is still very much alive and well, but I am seeing a shift. And even in the sense that there is a question, it's not automatically assumed that people are going to drink in social settings. It is somewhat of a question. There are more and more non-alcoholic options available at parties and get togethers, which is wonderful.

Jane Ballard (02:04.098)
So do I see it as a current trend or more of a fundamental shift? I mean, it's definitely a current trend, but I truly honestly believe it is a fundamental shift because we are finally getting the information out to the public that we need that has been around and available for decades, but hasn't been widespread for whatever reason, political reasons, capitalist reasons, who knows? The alcohol industry is powerful.

So here's one of the main things I think that people are hearing and are waking up to. The fact that alcohol is a toxin. Since 19, I want to say 1982, but the early 1980s, we have known that alcohol is a classified one carcinogen and that there is no safe amount of alcohol to consume.

So classified 1 carcinogen, means it is in the same category as tobacco and radiation, asbestos, things that cause cancer. And so not only has alcohol been linked, correlated with increased cancer risk, it has actually been shown to cause eight different types of cancer. Let's see if I can remember them. Probably not, but I'll try. Basically, it's anything that alcohol touches as it goes through your system.

In addition to breast cancer, it increases the risk of breast cancer because it impacts estrogen. Alcohol consumption actually increases the amount of estrogen in the body for women and men. So I think a lot of people don't realize that either. Okay, so the types of cancer, esophageal cancer, mouth cancer, larynx and pharynx, like throat cancer, colon cancer.

Shoot. Breast cancer, we said. I'll put it in the show notes, okay? I don't want to bore you all while I'm trying to dig this out of the depths of my brain. But needless to say, there are multiple types of cancer that alcohol is directly causal. It has a causal relationship, not just correlation, but causation. So there's that that I think contributes to this growing

Jane Ballard (04:24.782)
trend which I think will become a fundamental shift. And then there's the fact that people are realizing that whatever comes up must come down. And when you are a parent you do not get to come down in peace. You do not get to sleep in. You wake up when your child wakes up and sometimes that's 5 a.m. If you're lucky 7 maybe 8 probably not.

And let me tell you, coming down on a regular basis from regularly ingested alcohol can be really just shitty. It's uncomfortable, it impacts your mood, it impacts your stress level, your ability to cope with stress, and it impacts your thoughts. So not only does it make it harder to cope with stress, but it clouds your thinking so that how you perceive different stressors in your environment

may be altered to where you perceive them as being more stressful, more of a threat, something you dread even more when there's alcohol in your system, and then you tend to underestimate your ability to cope with those things. And that creates a sense of anxiety, dread, guilt, and shame because you blame yourself. Like, why can't I get through a day? Why can't I take care of an infant? know, first day at home moms, think that, you know.

We tend to beat ourselves up. I was a stay at home mom for about four years. Went back to work when I had a four year old and two year old. And it's like, well, I'm staying home. I don't even have a job that I have to go to every day. But it's like, no, I have a 24 seven job that I don't get paid for. My little clients, these children don't thank me. And the fruits of my labor are unseen because the messes.

are made over and over again. The diapers keep coming and the meals need to be made and really the fruit of the labor is a child who is loved and alive at the end of the day and nobody thanks you for that. That's that's expected. So when you're doing that recovering from one glass of wine, two, three, four, five drinks, it makes it harder. And you know, we tend to as parents, at least in my experience, and I think this is not uncommon,

Jane Ballard (06:49.918)
you can have a glass of wine at the same time as your parenting. You don't have to set aside time, get a babysitter, you know, things that a lot of people just can't even do. And even people who can do, it's difficult to do. But it's not as difficult to buy a bottle of wine and have a glass while you're cooking a meal and your spouse has maybe come home and is taking a turn with the children.

that's relatively simple to incorporate into the day and it's accessible and I think that's why people choose that as a coping mechanism. The unfortunate thing is then you pay the price the next day and it makes the stress and the fatigue and the anxiety that comes with raising tiny humans even more intense and then you need that glass of wine even more the next day. I think people are ready to get out of that cycle.

Okay, next question. What do you think is behind this new generation of parents who embrace a sober or sober curious slash moderation lifestyle and the rejection of the wine mom trope? I mean, I think it's simpler. It's similar to what I just said. People realize that alcohol actually makes motherhood much more difficult. And I think there's another piece to this that

parenting, young children can be very socially isolating, especially before you've had children who go into school. Sometimes when kids become school age, you get this automatic community, or it's easier at least to build community through the parents of your children's friends. But when you have babies, know, oftentimes you're entering this stage of life at different rates. You're kind of staggered with your friend group, so not everyone's in it at the same time.

and it can be really isolating. Maybe you're not working outside the home anymore. don't really, you know, getting out for something simple like, I don't know, going to Target is very difficult by yourself. So it can be very isolating and very lonely. And mommy wine culture kind of promises on the surface this feeling of camaraderie and connection. But when you think about connecting

Jane Ballard (09:09.634)
when you're drinking, a lot of those connections, they feel deep in the moment, but let's say you have an acquaintance that you go deep on a mommy wine night with, and then you see her again in a week, it might be a little awkward. Like you don't just pick up where you left off. And so that level of connection, while it seems fulfilling in the moment, is not really very fulfilling or lasting oftentimes. And I think people are looking for real connection.

someone they can be authentic with whether they're drinking or not drinking. And that takes a little bit more time and intention to build and that's hard to do when you're parenting. So I can see the appeal of mommy wine culture, but I think more and more people are waking up and banding together and choosing an alternative. I see more and more women who rather than meeting up for happy hour or having drinks, are

going for walks in the early morning or after the kids go down to bed at night or they're meeting for coffee or they meet each other at the park and yes, maybe they get interrupted 500 times but it's some level of socialization. And then another way I see women socializing and I'm doing this myself, I absolutely love it, is doing kind of these alternative healing activities. You know, the embodiment work that

is kind of a buzzword that we're hearing a lot about. Something I've loved doing, I met a breathwork sound healer slash commercial real estate broker and mom. Her name is Pepsi Winland, she's here in Dallas. And she holds a monthly sound healing breathwork class. It's about an hour long, it's in the evening, I think it's around like seven or so.

And so it's accessible. Usually people's spouses are home by then and you can buy tickets. It's pretty affordable. And you lay on a mat, you check in, you do your breath work, you do your sound healing, and then you kind of process the experience and talk with the other women. And if you want, you can go have dinner afterwards with friends. I organized an event. It's been too long now. was, really early, early this year. I...

Jane Ballard (11:29.942)
organized like there were like eight of us that went as women we met up before and then went to the sound healing and then had dinner afterwards and it was so much fun and the wonderful thing is you go home and even if you're home at 10 or 11 which is actually kind of late for a mom who has to wake up super early even though you get home a little bit late maybe didn't get as much sleep as you'd like you don't have a hangover

you feel good because you did something nice for your nervous system and then you connected with like-minded women afterwards. And I think these types of activities are becoming more and more known and accessible. If you're wondering where you can find these kinds of activities, you are, Instagram is a good outlet. Even if you put in the search bar, you know, sound healing and your city or breath work and your city, you'll, you will likely find resources.

If not, you can also find some of these things online. Insight Timer, which is a meditation app, has guided breath work that is really good. And there's some really lovely skilled clinicians on there. Actually, I had the privilege of seeing Elizabeth Gilbert speak two nights ago about her new book, All the Way to the River. And she loves a breath work guide. His name is Taylor Somerville.

can find him on Insight Timer. She sings his praises. I have not checked him out yet, but if Liz Gilbert loves him, he's probably pretty good. So she says, what are some of the benefits of reducing or eliminating alcohol for parents of young children? Let me tell you, if you do not drink, that is probably the best thing you can do for your child and your relationship with your child. I'll give you a quick lesson on attachment.

attachment styles. What is attachment science? So John Bowlby, I believe I got his name right, John Bowlby developed this theory of attachment science and I can't remember when and I don't think he's living anymore so this was a while ago but it's since been built on and basically what he says is that we form an attachment as little tiny babies you know the minute we're born

Jane Ballard (13:49.966)
we form an attachment with our primary caregiver. Often that's our mother, but it can be anyone. It doesn't have to be a mother. And what a child or a baby needs to know in order to form a secure attachment, I'm going to give you an acronym, R-A-R-E. They need to know that that parent is accessible, responsive, and engaged. And that's

is throughout the lifespan. We need to have a primary attachment figure who is attuned, who is emotionally attuned to us, who can feel the energy and read the cues, the energy of our bodies and our facial expressions, hear our sounds. They can attune to us and know, you're in distress. How can I help you? What can I do for you? So let's think about drinking.

and attunement and being accessible and responsive and engaged. So as alcohol enters our system, it is a central nervous system depressant. Your central nervous system is your brain and your spinal.

your central nervous system becomes more and more sedated as you consume alcohol. So your ability to attune and pick up on cues, very subtle micro expressions and energy cues coming from your child is going to decrease. Therefore your child, even if it is imperceptible and cannot be put into words, they will pick up on your energy that you are less accessible, you are less responsive, you are less engaged.

Or when you are responsive, maybe you're not as empathic, maybe you're not as patient, maybe you're irritable, maybe you lose your temper quicker. I know I have. You might be feeling the mom guilt coming on as you're listening to this. Let me tell you, I have been there. I have done it. I don't drink now. I still lose my temper. Parenting is extremely difficult and I need all the emotional resources that are available to me.

Jane Ballard (15:55.83)
in order to parent to my best ability. And when there's alcohol in my system or there's alcohol leaving my system, I have a system that has just left, alcohol has just left it and it is recovering. It's trying to get back to its baseline. I'm not going to be as resourced in order to be patient and loving and attuned to my child. So your child will infinitely benefit from no to even low alcohol consumption.

because you will be present. You will be present. You will be consistent. They will know what to expect from you. It's the best gift you can give your child. Right before I quit drinking, I quit drinking in September of 2022. My children were, my son had just turned nine the week before. My daughter was six and my other daughter was four. And several months leading up to that moment, my six year old daughter,

I was tucking her into bed one night, giving her a hug, giving her a kiss, and she said, mommy, you smell like wine. And it was just, it was a dagger in the heart. I actually hadn't even been drinking wine. I had been drinking margaritas. Hello, this is tequila, not wine, but you know, she smelled booze and she called it wine. And I hadn't even had that much. I'd had a margarita and a half at dinner. But it just, it cut through.

me and I experienced that comment in a way that I haven't experienced, I don't know, other other consequences of alcohol use and I didn't want to be that mom whose daughter associates her with the smell of booze. You know, I grew up with a mom who didn't drink. She never drank because she got headaches very easily. She had migraines and if she had a sip of wine she would have a migraine so she just didn't drink and

And I loved that. And I didn't want to be the mom who drinks and has to have a cocktail or a glass of wine to de-stress or to socialize or to cook dinner or whatever the case may be. I want to be present. I want to be sober minded. I want to be accessible and responsive and engaged.

Jane Ballard (18:18.518)
Okay, next question. Is it easier to turn down alcohol in today's social climate than it might have been in the past? I believe so. You know, I'm, my algorithm immerses me in sober curious and alcohol free culture. And so to me, seems like it's everywhere. To those of you who are not as immersed in this, it's, probably feels much more fringe and maybe you know somebody who

likes mocktails or you're noticing that restaurants tend to have mocktail menus these days. But I do think in general, it is much more socially acceptable. The stigma of being sober is lifting. It's not associated with being out of control or hitting a rock bottom or losing the privilege of drinking. Let me tell you, drinking is not a privilege. Being sober and having that freedom of alcohol being a non-issue is the greatest privilege of my

and I never thought I would be one to say that. I didn't think it was a privilege. I thought it would have been deprivation and boring and socially isolating, but I promise you it has been the total opposite of that and for all the women that are in my community that I talk with on a regular basis, they've had the same experience and I promise you that experience is accessible for you too.

So yes, I do think it's more accessible. I think it's less stigmatized. There are wonderful, delicious mocktails. I was actually just in Mexico in San Cristobal de las Casas in Chiapas, Mexico at the amazing Hotel Bo where Chef Hugo, Victor, blah, well, I can't say his name. Chef Victor Hugo just fed me and this group of women that we were on a retreat with, Alta Vida.

medical wellness retreats. They're amazing. I'll just drop that little line in there. Megan Swan, look her up. But anyway, they made me the best margarita mocktail I'd ever had. It wasn't too sweet, it was salty, had little citrus in it, it looked beautiful. You know, don't have to feel like you're deprived of the glamour and the sophistication and the fine dining and those things that some of us love or loved about.

Jane Ballard (20:45.24)
wine culture or drinking culture. You can have your cool little mocktail with adaptogens in it and it's beautiful and tasty and you know it's a non-issue for me now. It doesn't even cross my mind anymore that I'm missing out or that I'm gonna feel awkward you know three years in it's a non-issue.

So the next question, what are some practical tips or recommendations for people, especially parents of young children who are newly sober curious or trying to drink less or not at all? So you will probably think this is cliche because you hear it everywhere, but I think the number one thing is try not to do this in isolation. Try to find your people. They are out there. I promise you they are out there. And if you can't find them in person, you can find them online.

So I kind of did it in isolation myself for about the first six months of my SOBA journey. And it was okay because I was in person, I was doing it in isolation, but really in reality, I found people on social media. I found groups of women on Facebook, on Instagram, SOBA sisters, Megan Wilcox with SOBA Sisters. She's amazing. I went to Bali with her. She introduced me to Bali and retreat leading.

There are women out there, find them on Instagram. Search So We're Curious or Alcohol-Free Women. Go on a retreat. mean, bonding with women, and you don't have to go all the way to Bali. You can find local retreats in the United States, in Europe, in Canada. Find a retreat. Find even a yoga studio. know, so many yoga studios develop this sense of community and also have breath work and sound healing. Quit lit. Get it.

get on Amazon and search Quitlit, I like Chick lit, but it's Quitlit, and read the books, read all the books. Those were highly influential and helped me feel less alone in the beginning. And I think that the women I've spoken with have felt the same way. So, you know, get to know those people. We are the luckiest. That's one of my favorites. She also wrote Push Off from Here.

Jane Ballard (23:06.616)
Quit Like a Woman, Holly Whitaker's Quit Like a Woman, Annie Grace, what's the name of her book? my gosh, it's flipping my mind. But there's a ton out there. So many wonderful ones that I haven't named as well. Last question, what are some specific in the moment ways that parents of young children can decompress or manage the mental load of motherhood in place of relying on alcohol? You know, that is such a hard one.

because it is valid that it is isolating like we talked about. There aren't a lot of in the moment things. If you can get five minutes to yourself a day, sometimes you're lucky. So, you know, one thing that I recommend to people is if you find yourself being flooded with emotion, if you're angry, if you're irritated, if you're sad, put your baby in the crib, put your baby, your child, them in a safe place, go to the bathroom.

Or maybe they're just running around and that's okay to lock the door. They may beat on the door. Give yourself two minutes to just sit and not be touched and try to breathe. know, breathe in for three, out for three, in for three, out for three. It sounds silly. It sounds like, how's that going to help me breathing? I breathe all the time. But just give yourself those two minutes to kind of decompress.

You know, you need to give your nervous system a moment to come down, to come out of this fight or flight and come back into this mode of rest and digest and relaxation. Other things you can do, it's tough. know, work with your partner. If you have a partner, if you're not a single parent, utilize your partner, take turns, give each other breaks, call people, talk to people.

FaceTime, get outside. When I was a stay-at-home mom, getting outside really, really helped, even just going to Target. If you can get out of your four walls for 30 minutes, pack your kit up and go, it's like my brain would just reset and it was like a whole new perspective and feeling less isolated, feeling less like my life is always gonna be like this and I'll never feel like myself again. Like, just know that this will pass.

Jane Ballard (25:31.756)
getting outside and seeing the sun and even talking to strangers at the target check out line can be helpful. And then, you know, 12 step meetings, they have all these lovely sayings and one of my favorite ones is don't get HALT. HALT stands for hungry, angry, lonely, tired. Well, you're going to be tired. And at times you will be hungry because you don't have time to eat. But to the best of your abilities, allow yourself to rest.

Your house will get organized another day. Your laundry can never be folded. Just have clean clothes in a pile. Lower your expectations for yourself to function like you did pre-child because rest is foundational to your mental health and your physical health. You know, if you have the means, hire someone to come care for your child so you can either take naps or get sleep at night. It is so important. I can't emphasize that enough. If you look at post

psychosis and intrusive thoughts, depression, anxiety, sleep will protect you from those. Lack of sleep is one of the biggest risk factors for suffering from those symptoms. Talk to people, get help, reach out to a supportive person. you are, you know, intrusive thoughts, people don't realize how common intrusive thoughts are.

in the postpartum phase and intrusive thoughts are basically this unwanted disturbing thought that pops into your mind and then what makes an intrusive thought problematic is people then start analyzing the intrusive thought and wondering well why would I think that something's wrong with me I must be going crazy please know if you have these thoughts you're not going crazy the brain does that it spits out junk thoughts occasionally let somebody know

particularly somebody who is trained to deal with intrusive thoughts, a therapist, postpartum support, international is a wonderful resource and you can find perinatal certified clinicians all over the country. I know in the United States, I'm not sure about other countries what the resources would be, but I'll try to do a little research and put some stuff in the show notes. But get help. It doesn't mean something's wrong with you. You're not losing it.

Jane Ballard (27:56.312)
Quarantine is hard and we all need support. We don't have the villages that humans evolved having now to raise our children. We're often doing it in isolation and that's hard. We need each other. So let's band together and let people in.

Jane Ballard (28:14.158)
I hope that was helpful. I am going to stop here, but I would love to hear your questions, your comments. Please reach out. You can find me on Instagram at Jane W. Ballard. Send me a direct message or email me. You can email me at Jane at Jane W. Ballard. And Melissa Daly with the bump.com. Thank you so much for these thought provoking questions and for getting the word out that

Living a life alcohol-free is actually a wonderful gift and the most unexpectedly brilliant healing tool I've ever encountered. So thank you and to all of you. I wish you well and look forward to connecting soon. Take care.