56. From Boss Lady Wine to Boss Lady Zero Proof

Jane Ballard (00:02.286)
All right, Natalie, I am so glad that you agreed to come on the podcast today and share a little bit about your story. Thank you so much for being here.

Natalie (00:10.023)
Well, thank you. I'm just honored and I'm so grateful for the opportunity. So thank you.

Jane Ballard (00:14.272)
Yes, of course. Well, let's just jump right in. Maybe tell me a little bit about kind of what you're doing in the alcohol free space and what life looks like for you today.

Natalie (00:26.813)
It's so funny, Jane, because to think about what I'm doing today, and I've been alcohol-free now just over two years. I actually don't even look at my day count anymore, but I do sometimes for the angel numbers. So what I'm doing now, so just over two years, I just got certified as an Enneagram coach. So I'm looking forward to what that looks like in the future. Enneagram, for those that don't know, is a personality test.

And I love personality tests. I'm a pharmaceutical rep during the day. And so we do a lot of personality and strength finders and team building and communication. And I just think the Enneagram is fascinating. So I'm working on the Enneagram coaching kind of as a side hustle. Yeah, so kind of as a side hustle. And then I also have a friend, we made a little group called Sassy Sober Living.

Jane Ballard (01:08.726)
Yes, well we got to come back to that. I love the Enneagram.

Natalie (01:20.475)
So we host calls monthly and I feature different speakers and authors and just, I think there's just such positivity around being alcohol free. And to be honest with you, before I quit drinking, I didn't know all of those things. So for me, it's, you know, I'm just proud to be alcohol free. I'm open to share and opportunities like these are so humbling to me just to have these opportunities to spread the word that it's okay if you want to quit drinking.

Jane Ballard (01:48.574)
It is okay to quit drinking for any reason or no reason at all.

Natalie (01:52.919)
Exactly. No rock bottom needed. That's my biggest thing. Yes.

Jane Ballard (01:55.694)
I love that. That's so true. No rock bottom, no stigma. Or if you have a rock bottom, that's okay too.

Natalie (02:00.145)
Yeah, absolutely. And that's okay. And I'm also, I've been grateful, I've been able to do some speaking and actually the speaking that I'm doing, like motivational speaking, and I have a topic. So my dream is to have a TED Talk. So if anybody's hearing this, I want a TED Talk. Mindset, mindset, motivation and mentors. That's my, but that came from my alcohol-free journey. So I use those things in my journey.

Jane Ballard (02:17.358)
That's amazing.

Natalie (02:28.719)
And so it's just interesting. So we'll get to all that, that's what I'm doing today.

Jane Ballard (02:32.788)
Okay, awesome. Well, let's rewind a little bit and go back to earlier parts of your life. Tell me a little bit about what alcohol, how did that enter your life? What did you know about it? How old were you? That sort of thing.

Natalie (02:40.285)
Yeah.

Natalie (02:48.591)
Interesting. So my journey is a little different because everybody's journey is different and the experiences are different. I was raised in a very small town in Kentucky and Eastern Kentucky and my parents, I was raised Southern Baptist. My parents are amazing people and they are not drinkers. So drinking was not allowed in my home. Absolutely. Absolutely. No drinking allowed. And if you would drink, it's bad. So very...

Jane Ballard (03:09.142)
The drinking was considered bad against the rules. Okay.

Natalie (03:17.789)
much a shameful thing growing up. Not that that's bad, but my parents have been married now. Next, in April, will be 64 years. My dad is 87 and still works full time. My mom is 84. I mean, I have amazing genes and they're just amazing people. And it was basically work ethic. Good things happen to good people. And it's just amazing to me how...

Jane Ballard (03:27.649)
That's amazing.

Jane Ballard (03:32.269)
Wow.

Jane Ballard (03:40.974)
Mm.

Natalie (03:43.581)
They're just such staples of my life. And then my sister is my best friend. She's eight years older than me. So growing up, you know, we didn't have alcohol in the house. There was no drinking allowed. And then I just became a really busy kid. So studying was very important. So in high school, I was, you know, 4.0 graduated salutatorian cheerleader dancing. was dancing at the studio four days a week. I got a scholarship and free tuition to the studio.

I got an academic scholarship to go to college. So I always joke now when I share the story, I was probably a goody two shoes. You know, a joke like maybe I was, no, 100 % goody two shoes. And I was an overachiever and that gets back to the personality. I'm an Enneagram eight and I'm sure most of you're familiar with the Enneagram. I'm a flaming eight and I need a warning button with this.

Jane Ballard (04:24.63)
You were an achiever. You were driven.

Jane Ballard (04:34.712)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (04:38.222)
I love eights. You don't have to guess what they're thinking.

Natalie (04:43.309)
No, not at all. and then just growing up, I think I was just really busy and then college hit. And so you have to also keep in mind, Jane, what was interesting during my growing up is I started competing in pageants at 15 years old. So I think that really instilled this goal of perfection, which might not have been a positive image influence, but I think what it did do is it surrounded me with people who had the same goals that I did.

and we had the same mindset, you know, and I always say in this case, birds of a feather flock together. So my world was training, studying, and just that was, and drinking was not a part of that. So.

Jane Ballard (05:22.526)
you get into pageants? Was that like an influence from your mom or friends or?

Natalie (05:26.173)
So my mom did and I really don't know how I started, but I can remember being 15 and entered a local pageant. And then after that, I entered the pageants that had talent. So I competed in the Miss America system and my talent was tap dancing. So I danced all the way through college and in college I was the little university was a prelim to Miss Kentucky, the America system. So I think that was also this perception of

I'm on campus, I have this title, so therefore I can't drink because, oh my gosh, that would be bad if the, exactly. So again, I think perception that didn't give the best for me to be judged that whole time, yet I think there's something to be said. It also kept me on the straight line. So it's interesting. Exactly. So then you, so drinking, honestly, when I first started drinking, I was 26 years old.

Jane Ballard (05:58.275)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (06:02.476)
People are watching you.

Jane Ballard (06:16.139)
Yeah, there were some probably some benefits to it.

Jane Ballard (06:25.102)
Okay, that's rare.

Natalie (06:25.309)
which is really unique as I, yeah, so 26 years old and the reason I started drinking was I got my first big girl job. So I had moved to a bigger city. So I always compare it to Sex and the City, Sarah Jessica Parker, but on a much smaller scale. But it was like drinking was sexy and cool and I was growing my career and starting on the corporate ladder and I thought that's what I needed to do.

Jane Ballard (06:42.03)
you

Jane Ballard (06:53.822)
what you do to fit the kind of the brand.

Natalie (06:56.733)
And so I look back now, if I never would have picked up that drink at that first happy hour, I probably would have stayed a non-drinker. That's what's curious to me.

Jane Ballard (07:04.49)
Yeah. Well, and it's interesting because I'm curious, like the culture that you grew up in was non-drinking. And then probably the time period, I think things were shifting with alcohol too, with wine becoming more popular and women drinking becoming more and more of a thing and more of a symbol of empowerment and sophistication. And then you're in a bigger city and you're a professional woman. And so there were probably all these factors at play.

Natalie (07:13.085)
Mm-hmm.

Natalie (07:22.653)
Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes.

Natalie (07:33.903)
without a doubt. And I think too, you know, we'll talk about the work I did, but Annie Grace's book, This Naked Mind and Meg Geiswides, intoxicating lies, know, executive professional women. And I think there's such a niche too for us to have that discussion as professional women in leadership roles, because we don't talk about these things. You know, it's like the professional world's over here. And then what you do after five o'clock, we're not going to talk about, but yet the worlds merge and we need to talk about it.

Jane Ballard (08:04.238)
I agree. Yeah. Okay, so you started, so you went to a bigger city. You're working in the pharmaceutical industry, is that right? Okay, so you have a drink at this first happy hour and then was it kind of a gradual shift that you started, like alcohol became more present in your life?

Natalie (08:05.105)
Yes, absolutely.

Natalie (08:10.631)
Mm-hmm. Yes, that's correct.

Natalie (08:20.925)
you

So I think, know, again, it's funny and I'm sure you know this, what's a normal drinker who knows nowadays, but I think is important to talk about. There's still that stigma that you're an alcoholic or you're not. And that's just not the case. And we know that being a part of this sober community, I love to call it, but it's alcohol use disorder. And if you have a drink, even if it's once a year, you're on the spectrum. Maybe you're a 0.5.

Jane Ballard (08:50.85)
Get

Natalie (08:53.137)
but you're on the spectrum. A 10 would be, you've lost your job, you're whatever. But there's this, correct, but there's this spectrum. I didn't, growing up, I think I was struggling with, I knew alcohol was bad, but I was definitely a social drinker, had no issues. when I talk about, so let me just, the timeline of things. So 26 years old, big girl job.

Jane Ballard (08:54.68)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (08:59.086)
you're physically dependent, all that kind of stuff.

Jane Ballard (09:15.422)
Yeah.

Natalie (09:18.493)
start drinking. So I don't really remember the lines are so blurred for me on when the problem started because it was such a slow progression. So then I'm just working and selling and hustling and networking and doing all the things I'm progressing in my career. And then in 2008, I met the man of my dreams and we get married and he happens to have three kids. Bam.

Jane Ballard (09:25.102)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (09:45.486)
Okay.

Natalie (09:46.153)
not what I expected for my plan. So it just goes, absolutely. So then again, the change shifts from this hustle grind, sales, boozy industries, not, know, in any type of sales role, then now a mommy wine culture. Exactly.

Jane Ballard (09:49.026)
big change.

Jane Ballard (10:02.368)
Yeah, where you're with clients and whining and dining people and entertaining and...

Natalie (10:09.369)
And all the rules have changed now, but you know, it's interesting, but now it's mommy wine culture. So then it's yetis at the football field. And so then that progresses. So you know, it's fascinating to me. I just knew in my gut, and maybe it was from my childhood, something wasn't right. And I didn't like drinking, but yet I guess I felt like as an adult, it was the, don't know, I just fell into this and it's bizarre to me now, but I did and I became mommy wine culture.

Jane Ballard (10:28.161)
Yeah.

Natalie (10:38.599)
But what's funny is in 2015, you know, I think when we're Googling, am I an alcoholic or do I have a drinking problem? That might be a red flag. We need to have a little assessment. That's what I tell my friends now. Like if you ever Googled, then that you might need to look at it. But you know, back in

Jane Ballard (10:56.974)
it means you've had some negative consequences that are worth being curious about.

Natalie (11:01.341)
for whatever reason, and I don't remember it being specific, no rock bottom, but I remember in 2015 Googling and thinking, you know what, I'm gonna go to a meeting. That's a big deal. So the guts I had to go to a meeting in 2015, because again, I think that's the Enneagram 8 in me, let's get it, let's do it, and let's fix it, met some great people, right? So I walk in this AA room, terrified, terrified.

Jane Ballard (11:18.678)
Let's go see what's happening here.

Jane Ballard (11:28.151)
bad.

Natalie (11:28.731)
Had a beautiful meeting, great people, but I walked out of that meeting going, my gosh, I'm not an alcoholic. So good deal, check, I can move on with my life. I am a normal drinker.

Jane Ballard (11:40.152)
can roll this one out. Yeah, it's either this or that. I'm not that, so good.

Natalie (11:44.903)
Correct. So I'm a normal drinker, so I carry on. 2015, 2018, I'm still full-time drug rep to this day, but in 2018, I started a side hustle. You know, most women do Mary Kay or Rodan and Fields, Tupperware, Pamper Chef. I did wine. So that made sense. Perfect for me, right? Exactly. Exactly. So my...

Jane Ballard (12:04.942)
I was a client of one of those wine companies at one point probably in 2018.

Natalie (12:13.623)
handle on Instagram was Boss Lady Wine. Today I'm Boss Lady Zero Proof. Trust me people, we can evolve. It's a beautiful thing. I love that. I'm gonna steal that. Rebrand yourself. So 2018, I'm Boss Lady Wine. I'm selling wine. My Instagram feed, I am feeding the mommy wine culture. know, corks are for quitters. It's not drinking alone if the dog is home. Like all of this and I'm

Jane Ballard (12:19.502)
I love it. We can rebrand ourselves any time.

Natalie (12:42.077)
validated by every post I make. You know, I'm successful in my side hustle, so I have wonderful friends and customers, and I just could not imagine my life without the wine glass in my hand.

Jane Ballard (12:56.686)
So when you did try, what did that feel like? mean, scary or impossible or boring or?

Natalie (13:01.565)
So I can remember, no, I can remember quitting at times and not a big deal. So I was like, okay, well then again, we checked the box and all right, of course I did. Exactly, I just don't want to, right? So I don't want to, so it's a want. Well, interesting enough, we progress and I just that nagging feeling, we have to listen to our guts. We have to listen to that little voice. So then COVID hit, then I'm getting paid for wine, still working.

Jane Ballard (13:11.01)
I can quit if I want to, so it's not a problem.

Natalie (13:30.385)
I have cases of free wine at the house. Cases of free wine. So then that's when the line really blurred of when did I go from drinking on the weekends and drinking again, I wasn't an alcoholic because it's five o'clock or after.

Jane Ballard (13:45.516)
you had the certain rules that make sure that, yeah, it looks normal. It is normal.

Natalie (13:47.325)
501 exactly.

Weekends are different because that's boozy brunches, right? So, you know, all...

Jane Ballard (13:54.604)
Yeah, day drinking's okay on the weekends. And then I think COVID was a huge turning point culturally. And so many women especially are reporting that now.

Natalie (14:00.678)
Yes.

Natalie (14:04.605)
Yeah, exactly. then early 2022, I decided, okay, because there was, you know, to be honest with you, I'm not going to quit forever. That just sounded ludicrous to quit. Why would I do that? So I'm not going to do that and change my whole life. So I tell you what I'll do. I'll just moderate. So in early 2022, I decided to moderate and unfortunately,

Jane Ballard (14:18.306)
Crazy. So extreme.

Natalie (14:31.825)
that wasn't working. I did about six months of that and again it's that gut feeling that's like this why do I feel like I have to do this. So I think that's the moment that was really the turning point for me because I had went to AA and that wasn't a fit. Now I'm trying to moderate that wasn't working. Absolutely maddening to me to try to moderate just and I'll give you an example. yeah so when we

Jane Ballard (14:56.758)
Yeah, I want to hear about moderation because I have such like I think moderation is its own version of hell because it requires a lot of mental gymnastics and computing and planning and self-discipline and all the things.

Natalie (15:10.363)
Yes, I wasted a lot of energy. I'll give you an example then. So I would have one glass of wine, then I need to have water. And then what if I want two glasses of wine? Maybe I can squeeze that one more in. It just was this addition and subtraction whether now I realize you just take it all together, it's better. But at the time that made sense, I thought. Now I know better, we do better. And there's a fascinating article if you haven't read it.

It's by Gretchen Rubin, just simply Google Gretchen Rubin, moderators versus abstainers. And it's not, yeah, fascinating. It's not about alcohol. It's simply about the personality type. Yes. fascinating article. So I read, you know, and I found that in my moderation error, I like to call it. And then just...

Jane Ballard (15:46.416)
Okay, I haven't read that.

Jane Ballard (15:51.342)
Okay. Like the psychology and the, okay, I'll link that in the show notes so people can read it.

Jane Ballard (16:04.11)
Yeah.

Natalie (16:06.317)
One day my gym was running a 30 day cleanse and fitness and I thought this will be perfect. So all the other cleanses I had done, I would joke as long as I can still drink alcohol, I'm gonna do it. You gotta have my wine. Well, I never lost weight. That's ironic. I mean, I always joke if not drinking alcohol were an infomercial, we would all sign up, right? So better skin.

Jane Ballard (16:21.624)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (16:25.186)
Like, what's happening here?

Jane Ballard (16:35.682)
That's hilarious. That's so true.

Natalie (16:36.957)
Better skin, lose weight, decrease risk of breast cancer by 15%. All of these things, we don't.

Jane Ballard (16:43.458)
get rid of those pesky headaches and irritability and.

Natalie (16:46.969)
We don't talk about all of that because society wants us to drink. I wanted women to drink. I'm not going to advertise that. I want you to buy wine for me at the time. moderation. when my gym offered the 30 day cleanse, I was like, this is a perfect time to start. But I knew if I did that, I would have to make some big changes because my whole life was around alcohol and my friends drink and my husband drinks and

Jane Ballard (16:57.09)
me.

Natalie (17:14.525)
You know, I was scared, like, what's this gonna look like? But what's interesting, 30 days is all I committed to. That's all I'm gonna do. There was no way I had plans to quit drinking forever. No way. And now here I look back, so I always joke my 30 day cleanse, I'm over two years, I'm crushing my goal. And I never stopped. And I think that's the key. Always give my girlfriend's advice or my friend's advice or anyone that reaches out.

Jane Ballard (17:32.696)
So that was it. You committed to 30 days and you never stopped.

Natalie (17:43.741)
If I want to start, what do I do? But you have to be committed. So number one, it's mindset. So I always say there's three things when you start a journey and when you want to hit a goal. And that's going to be my TED Talk. Mindset, motivation, and mentors. And my point of that is, yes, triple M. So number one, mindset. You have to put your mind to it. You have to say, I'm going to do this. There's no, I hope I can't drink. No.

Jane Ballard (18:00.718)
I like it.

Jane Ballard (18:11.982)
I'm not trying, I'm going to do it. Like my life depends on it.

Natalie (18:12.859)
You're not drinking. Correct. There's always going to be a wedding. There's always going to be a birthday. There's always a Jane, there's always going to be a day that ends in Y. so therefore there's no good time to start. So number one, I just did it. That's why my random day is mid October because that's when the clints was happening. So mindset.

Jane Ballard (18:19.778)
That's so true. A happy hour, a something.

Jane Ballard (18:26.143)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (18:37.646)
You're like, okay, let's do it.

Natalie (18:41.469)
Then motivation for me was books, podcasts, music. And then lastly, mentors. And for me, that's community. And community can look at a lot of different things, but that again is that birds of a feather flock together. So those were the three things I did. Yes.

Jane Ballard (18:55.062)
Yes, having connection with people who are either supportive or like-minded or both, you know.

Natalie (19:02.813)
Exactly, exactly. So my biggest cheerleader is my husband and he still drinks to this day. you know, those first 30 days were where the work was and podcasts like this and hearing stories. And you got to keep in mind, I was boss lady wine and I'm following sober accounts now and I'm following sober hashtags. These people probably had to be fascinated with

Or maybe they, I mean, because honestly, if somebody followed me with wine, I would be honored like, they're just exploring or sober curious, soberish. There's so many fun names nowadays. It's cool.

Jane Ballard (19:35.362)
Yeah

Jane Ballard (19:39.564)
Yes, and so many of us in the sober community on social media probably were, you know, had our former lives as wine connoisseurs and all that.

Natalie (19:47.549)
Exactly. So I quit drinking for that 30 days, but I did the work. So I dialed into a call. There was an influencer online called Jen Hurst. She offered a free call. She doesn't offer the free one anymore, but she has a membership. So I did other stuff outside the gym.

Jane Ballard (19:59.138)
Yes!

Jane Ballard (20:03.96)
So was this through the gym thing or was this a separate thing?

So you're like, if I'm gonna do this, I need to get some outside resources.

Natalie (20:11.215)
Yes, correct. Mindset. I was all in. There was no toe in the water. It was dunking. So the fascinating thing about her call was the speaker and her were talking. It was almost like a different language, which is so fascinating to me. They were using all Quitlit and Sober Community and Lauren McCowan. I never heard of these people. Right. So

Jane Ballard (20:16.874)
Okay. Yeah.

Jane Ballard (20:36.526)
Like, who is this?

Natalie (20:38.805)
I realized, I think what was fascinating to me is I realized after that call, there's a whole world that exists and I thought it was AA. Do you see what, that's the point. I'm trying to, yes.

Jane Ballard (20:48.696)
There's this whole culture of these like amazing, educated, high functioning, high achieving women and men and why not get curious about that world and maybe it's fun to be a part of that.

Natalie (20:57.476)
Yes.

Natalie (21:03.589)
And that's what happened. So in that first 30 days, actually, and then I got a sober coach. And I mean, I'm doing all the things because I was all in, I had a sober coach tell me you were doing more in 30 days than most people do in their first year. So, but I've also been described as a balls to the wall personality. So why would I take my alcohol-free journey any different?

Jane Ballard (21:20.342)
You

Jane Ballard (21:28.242)
Exactly. You're an Enneagram 8. I mean, look at your childhood when you're doing 50 million things and you're an overachiever. So you overachieved at this and that served you well, it sounds like.

Natalie (21:31.333)
Yes.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

In sobriety 100 % so it's just been you know and now I think what's also then the books and the music and the podcasts again your podcast would fall under I created a Spotify playlist and I have it linked if anybody wants to find me on Instagram I'm sure you'll put my thing below Music just resonated with me the lyrics of songs Charles Kelly who is

Jane Ballard (21:57.474)
Yeah.

Natalie (22:08.437)
of Lady A. So I was about six months sober. He came out, I don't know if you've heard it, but it was his goodbye letter to alcohol. I listened to this song and I'm like, are people getting sober because I'm sober now? So my journey's cruising along and the more you follow on Instagram, the more the algorithm exposes you. So I cleaned it all up. So I quit my wine business within the first month.

Jane Ballard (22:23.502)
you

Jane Ballard (22:29.152)
You start seeing so much.

Jane Ballard (22:36.514)
Was that hard?

Natalie (22:38.625)
Again, it was the mindset. I was ready to do everything. But I was going to come back to it. It was just 30 days. Exactly. So that kept me motivated. I still don't say forever. Just, I don't know why. It's a mental thing with me. But I know it's forever. then I think so, mindset, motivation, then the mentors. So the community piece, had Jim Hurst, you have TLC.

Jane Ballard (22:40.14)
Yeah, you were ready to do it.

Jane Ballard (22:44.91)
You're just taking a break.

Jane Ballard (22:52.248)
I don't either because yeah.

Natalie (23:06.321)
And then my friend and I have Sassy Sober Livvy, just find your people, just whatever that looks like. And you know, from an outsider as a drinker, I thought AA was the only way and it wasn't. And just find what works for you. And there's no judgment. Whatever works is what works for you. So I'm just grateful to be exposed to all these beautiful people. I found you and just these like-minded women that

Jane Ballard (23:12.803)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (23:20.002)
Yes.

Natalie (23:35.089)
to be honest with you, these badass women that are sober, I'm just so inspired all the time. And now two and a half years later almost, I'm in this part of, you know, the sober first. You know, it's always scary. The first sober vacation. I went to Key West at 60 days. I had, and I had been, I went with the same group of people that I went with the year before when I was a drinker.

Jane Ballard (23:49.175)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (23:53.642)
my gosh, that's like a party place.

Jane Ballard (24:03.906)
Yeah.

Natalie (24:03.919)
Again, I think it's mindset because at 60 days I was in the air and I made the announcement to the group, I'm not drinking on this trip and you need to support me. And they did. They absolutely. And quite honestly, if your friends don't support you, that's kind of a problem. So you'll weed out your friends. Your friends are gonna support you. So I am so grateful. I am still part of my friend group. They all still drink.

Jane Ballard (24:12.972)
what they say. Good.

Jane Ballard (24:20.398)
Someone's wrong. Yeah.

Natalie (24:30.651)
my husband drinks. So it's not like I'm gonna stand on a soap box and be like, I'm sober, I want you to be sober now. That's not what we're doing. But if you ask me about my alcohol-free journey, look out, I will tell you all about it.

Jane Ballard (24:37.55)
All right.

Jane Ballard (24:43.862)
You'll share. Yes, that's how I feel. Like don't judge anyone and their choices. You know, I didn't choose to quit drinking until I was in my forties and you know, everyone needs to do what they need to do. But if someone's curious and they want to know, like I'm so passionate about letting people know there's, there's a really amazing way to do this, that you can make your own, you know.

Natalie (25:07.085)
Exactly. so, you know, all the sober first and now looking back, you know, the fear I had about quitting drinking forever. It's so sad how that fear paralyzed me to not want to quit drinking. And now life is just it's like living in technicolor, as you know, and I know and I hope there are drinkers listening to this. You know, I think it can be overwhelming to think about forever. That's why that 30 days was so important to me.

And then if you make 30 days, then you can make the decision. It's like dry January. What do you feel like? Listen to your body. How do you, I was getting compliments. So then I was being fueled. Did you lose weight? Did you get an eye lift? Did you get Botox? Well, as a woman, that makes you feel good. Yeah, so the puffiness. I just posted a before and after on Instagram recently. I had never shared one. I mean,

Jane Ballard (25:55.694)
You're like, okay.

Natalie (26:05.213)
And I'm 53 now. I have longevity in my genes. I want to live a long, healthy life. So the sober first one, I look back, I definitely think anxiety played a part in not specific anything. I just think the anxiety of life, know, working.

Jane Ballard (26:21.602)
Well, yeah, we have these narratives about alcohol and what it means to us that we almost feel like our facts. And then when you get away from it long enough, you can see like, yeah, that was just like an illusion basically. Like, why was I so worried about not having this drink?

Natalie (26:39.294)
And all the soap, why was I so worried? know, I'm so worried, what are people gonna think? People don't care. At the happy hours, I'm still the first one at the happy hour. I'll still get everybody a drink. I just, love having a wine glass. I just have club soda. I think, again, that's all mindset for me. I don't mind to be exposed. I think it's so kind when people say, are you okay if I drink? And I'm like, that's so sweet, but that's not my journey, you know?

Jane Ballard (26:54.722)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (27:06.709)
Yes, exactly.

Natalie (27:07.503)
Your journeys, and again, I'm just so grateful, my friends and my family, just everybody. But I will say I've had some moments where my mom has looked at me and said, I'm so proud of you. And that means a lot. Amazing. And I think the sober first, you the more time you get those sober firsts and you get things under your belt, you get more confident. So the first vacation, know, Key West.

Jane Ballard (27:21.4)
That's gotta feel so good.

Natalie (27:34.715)
was amazing. The sunsets look better sober. know, I just, all the things. And when you, when you start living the life, I adult colored in the beginning because the boredom I had to deal with, it wasn't boredom. It's the non chaos. It's I have more capacity in my brain. You know, you know all the things.

Jane Ballard (27:38.338)
They do.

Jane Ballard (27:55.198)
Yes, it's just like all this space that is freed up that you haven't figured out what to do with yet.

Natalie (28:01.145)
Exactly. I adult colored in the beginning. I make Derby hats. My sister lives in Kentucky. I make these fabulous hats now and I've always done it, but I always make one. Well now this year for the Derby, have a list of 10 people. So I'm going to make, yeah. So it all goes and I found to, you you learn your triggers. So any stressful, anxious, angry thing I get about it's like, I want a glass of wine.

Jane Ballard (28:14.242)
That's so cool.

Natalie (28:27.833)
And so if I pour a margarita virgin, if I just have a mocktail type thing, it's like it takes care of me. I love a good, yes, I call it a mockmosa. I put club soda and a flute and splash a OJ. And that seems to give me like this relaxing effect. That's sad, but it works. And then after two and a half years, I'm like, I've been through all of my sober first. This is great. My dog died in November.

Jane Ballard (28:35.2)
It's the ritual of it, you know?

Jane Ballard (28:46.382)
Yeah.

Natalie (28:56.847)
I hadn't experienced grief. So then I was, okay, put that one on the list as another trigger. She was old, she was not a healthy dog, she was 10, it was expected, but grief is another trigger. So we go through all these things and now I'm just so grateful when I look at the people I've been exposed to, the relationships I've made, how I'm able to share and meet people like you because

Jane Ballard (28:58.734)
brief.

Jane Ballard (29:04.056)
So.

Natalie (29:25.629)
I think it's so important that we, it's not easy, it, and we just, takes a village. So I always say birds of a feather flock together. It takes a village. You can do this. I'm very positive, just everything. I'm a positive type of personality. And that's how I tackle things. I will make jokes versus cry. And so vulnerability as an Enneagram eight is not my jam. Absolutely.

Jane Ballard (29:28.802)
We got a band together and.

Jane Ballard (29:33.486)
It

Jane Ballard (29:42.988)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (29:51.242)
Yeah, you use your humor and... Well, tell me a little bit about the Enneagram and I'm curious if your interest in that and this kind of training that you're doing came out of this space that you have now that you're not drinking.

Natalie (30:07.951)
Absolutely. I've always loved personality tests and especially in my day job, you know, working in a team and what you're in or, you know, some people do colors or disc, whatever it is, there's a personality when you work as a team. So, example, I work on a group with there's 10 of us, but then there's a smaller part of three of us. So when you're working with those, what is your style of communication? And we have to be careful with people. So for example, I've had my

Jane Ballard (30:20.414)
Yes.

Natalie (30:37.639)
colleagues take the Enneagram to help me practice. I have a colleague that's an Enneagram 2. Well, they're more sensitive. So as an Enneagram 8, my communication style is going to be different with an Enneagram 2 because I know I could hurt her feelings, but I wouldn't mean to. But it's knowing the Enneagram helps me communicate, helps me...

Jane Ballard (30:52.684)
Yeah. Yeah.

Natalie (31:00.573)
And it does, and so there's been proof that in work, so I'd love, so the goal with this, yes, I have more capacity. I wanted to get my certification. I think there's a niche in sobriety that we could kind of match that up. What's your Enneagram? What does that look like? I've done some research a little bit. Enneagram sevens and eights tend to be these overachievers who could have addiction issues. I don't even think it's a physical addiction. For me, it was that relief.

Jane Ballard (31:15.703)
Absolutely.

Jane Ballard (31:22.902)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jane Ballard (31:28.718)
It's like a personality, like doing something to the nth degree basically, you know? Yeah.

Natalie (31:35.125)
Yes, and then bringing it down a notch. That's where the wine, so maybe that type of addiction. I, so I would love to teach a class to executives and women and teens and how you use the any agreement work. So that's a goal. So it's what's awesome. And I know you know this as you talk to people as they progress, the things that I didn't think I could accomplish, you know, and now here I am two and a half years later.

Jane Ballard (31:51.311)
Mm-hmm.

Natalie (32:04.315)
Boss Lady Zero Proof, Enneagram Coach, motivational speaking, that was not on the docket two and a half years ago. and Alcohol Free Life opened up all those doors for me.

Jane Ballard (32:12.526)
Yeah

Jane Ballard (32:16.6)
same. Like I never it never occurred to me that I might have a podcast someday. It's like, but then it just kind of fell into place and it makes sense, you know. And I think like what you said about finding mentorship and community, even for people who aren't an Enneagram eight and super outgoing, like I am much more reserved and more introverted. And in the first six months of me not drinking, I really didn't tell a of people.

Natalie (32:21.031)
Isn't it awesome?

Natalie (32:27.173)
I love it.

Jane Ballard (32:44.652)
you know, maybe people who are close to me. And then I went on this women's retreat in Bali and met these amazing alcohol-free women and then decided I wanted to leave a retreat. And so I started sharing on Instagram. started a sober Instagram and it was terrifying. But doing that, I've met so many people. Like, I mean, I never would have met you if I hadn't have done that. And so I think even if you're sitting here listening to this saying, yeah, but I wouldn't ever find my people. It's like,

Natalie (33:06.746)
Exactly.

Jane Ballard (33:14.446)
You would, you just gotta give it time and it just kind of starts happening. You meet one person and then another and there's all these connections and there's just this amazing group of alcohol-free people out in the world.

Natalie (33:29.341)
It blows my mind. The unicorns, you think you're the only one. And what's really fascinating too now, when I navigate a happy hour, you know, I might ask for an alcohol-free beer or club soda and someone might hear me, you know, two years ago I got, are you, you know, what chip are you on? A guy asked me that. And I was, you know, I don't think we're going to get that anymore. And I think...

Jane Ballard (33:47.982)
What's wrong with you? Yeah.

Natalie (33:53.309)
You know, one day we might get there, as you know, we in the sober community, know, the surgeon general just issued the warning with alcohol. So I'm going to give another little brief story. So I had a breast cancer scare. I do not have breast cancer, but I did have to have a lumpectomy and I'm considered, what did they call it? High, high something and pre-cancer. So basically I have to get MRIs and mammograms every six months. So this is what I think is fascinating.

Jane Ballard (33:59.991)
Yes!

Jane Ballard (34:13.198)
some sort of high risk. Okay.

Yeah.

Natalie (34:21.681)
So I get diagnosed with this two years ago. Have to get all these MRIs and they warned me you're gonna have to have all these biopsies, all this stuff. Well, I quit drinking. So I've had all these tests and nothing, thank goodness, has showed up the past two and a half years on my test. I follow up with my oncologist about six months ago. This was before the US Surgeon General's warning. And my oncologist is like, I am just so excited for you. Like you're clear again. I said, well, I quit drinking.

Jane Ballard (34:43.95)
Mm-hmm.

Natalie (34:51.505)
He said, good for you. And I said, yes, you know, it decreases breast cancer 15%. And he giggled and said, yeah, I know. And I said, so why didn't you tell me?

Jane Ballard (35:02.9)
Yeah, why isn't anyone talking about this?

Natalie (35:05.039)
Why are we not talking about this? If I was Googling, Jane, I was Googling herbs to decrease cancer risk. And that is a true story. I ordered $150 worth of herbs. All I needed to do was put the wine glass down. And that's not all I needed to do, but it could have helped me 15%.

Jane Ballard (35:23.31)
But it's a huge thing and people don't realize like as little as seven drinks a week. That's one drink a night increases your risk by like 15 % or something.

Natalie (35:29.969)
Yes.

Natalie (35:34.171)
Yeah, so I have my favorite podcasts linked from an educational perspective. So from the, what does alcohol do to your body? So Heberman Labs is one of my favorites. So the alcohol episode, Mel Robbins had Dr. Sarah Wakeman, another amazing episode. Sober Powered, another one. Again, all these technical, and I think having my science background, I have a minor in biology, that...

Jane Ballard (35:45.356)
Yes, his alcohol episode is great.

Jane Ballard (36:00.245)
Yeah.

Natalie (36:02.085)
all added up to me. So I love Annie Grace in her book. She says, I can drink, I choose not to. And I talk about saying yes to things, like with the trip, for example, Key West at 60 Days. There was no way I was gonna say no to a trip when my husband turns into Jimmy Buffett and he has the time of his life and is in the best mood. Why would I give that up just because I don't have alcohol in my hand?

Jane Ballard (36:11.469)
Yeah.

Natalie (36:32.049)
That didn't add up to me.

Jane Ballard (36:34.902)
and the trip is the fun part, not the alcohol. Why do we need the alcohol to make the trip worth it?

Natalie (36:37.487)
Exactly. Exactly. So once I got over that, now I've done the all inclusive resorts, you know, that include the alcohol. when, me, it takes a minute to go, I don't want alcohol in my drink. But I, you know, and I found out what an affogato was recently. I don't know if you know an affogato. Okay, so I loved espresso martinis back in the day. That was like a nice treat. Well, an affogato,

Jane Ballard (36:53.319)
as no alcohol.

Jane Ballard (37:00.425)
No.

Natalie (37:07.517)
is a scoop of ice cream with espresso. Hello, throw that in a martini glass, that's your, there's your mocktail. So it's just getting creative and you know, I think to now when we learn our coping mechanisms, when I have a trigger, what am I feeling? What would fix me right now? Because probably meditating, reading or a walk or breathing is gonna take care of it.

Jane Ballard (37:10.798)
Yeah.

There's your mocktail.

Jane Ballard (37:33.998)
Yeah, like getting in touch with yourself and like, am I really craving here? Like I want a feeling of peace or I want lower stress or, you know, and how else can I meet that need?

Natalie (37:37.579)
Yeah.

Natalie (37:42.033)
Exactly. And so I'm just grateful and I'm just, I'm just so honored to again, have these opportunities to share because if you would have told me two and a half years ago, I would from boss lady wine to boss lady zero proof, I would have told you you're a liar and there's no way. So I think that's, I want to encourage people it can be done. You can do hard things and just encourage.

Jane Ballard (38:01.289)
Hahaha!

Jane Ballard (38:09.068)
Yes, and it's and I think the other piece is yes, you can do hard things and it's probably not as hard as you're imagining it to be. After those first 30 days or so, you know, like the first few days, it's like, yeah, it's you're learning new habits, but I don't ever think about it now. Very rarely.

Natalie (38:17.917)
100%.

Natalie (38:27.133)
And what's funny too, you know, the first few meetings with work, I was very scared. wanted it, you know, I would get a glass of wine, a mocktail to make it look like Chardonnay, you know, give me some club soda and put a little dash of orange juice. I want it to look like, I don't want to look like I'm drinking now. I think it's just amazing and beautiful. And then when you don't drink, if someone asks you if you're not drinking, they might not be coming from a place of

Jane Ballard (38:40.098)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (38:46.559)
Yeah.

Natalie (38:57.021)
Critique they might actually I've had a lot I'd like to not drink and I want to touch base with you on that and you know The secret sober people come out of the woodwork and I'm just love it when they share with me privately You know, I've always tried to stop, know again, you don't have to have a rock bottom try 30 days and mindset that's my biggest thing to all of this and just there's a beautiful life ahead and

Jane Ballard (39:01.848)
they're curious.

Natalie (39:22.205)
Alcohol is just the beginning. And on that note, another one of my books that I love, and I don't know if you've read it, it's by Amanda Cuda, and it's called Unbottled Potential.

Jane Ballard (39:32.942)
I have heard of her book, but I have not read it. Is it good? Okay.

Natalie (39:35.057)
Beautiful, beautiful book. So it focuses on the unbottle potential, the title, basically when you remove the alcohol, what's possible. So you're unbottling your, yes. Yes, so she's I think over eight years now. And then I'm reading Peggy Cooney's book right now. way, gosh, I'm sorry, I don't have the book in front of me. Sorry, Peggy.

Jane Ballard (39:46.326)
you actually live into your full potential as a human.

Jane Ballard (40:01.825)
No, that's okay. Peggy will link your book.

Natalie (40:04.719)
Yes, so because I'm going to have her on the next call in a few weeks. She's going to be live with us. And you know, when I'm hosting these calls now, you know, it started out, I had two women. Now we have about 10 and you know, it's only 10. But by golly, that's 10 women that need to hear that this is OK. Yes. Sure. mean, my calls are free. They're Zoom. I'm going to do three more months.

Jane Ballard (40:21.058)
That's 10 women.

So are these virtual groups? Can people get involved if they want to?

Natalie (40:34.385)
and then I'm gonna take a break. So, but we're gonna rotate an author and then we're gonna talk about travel with zero proof experiences with Susie. Then I'm gonna do another author. And I've had Amanda Cuda on, I've had Meg on. That's how I feel. I just love talking about their books because I've been able to talk to them. And then what's funny about that is I had no idea I would meet these wonderful people.

Jane Ballard (40:42.796)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (40:53.112)
You've gotten to meet them, yeah.

Natalie (41:00.069)
I had no idea if I would ask them, they would come on a call and they're all so amazing and beautiful and so precious. Cause they also, we all have the same goal. We all want to share this beautiful journey like you're doing.

Jane Ballard (41:06.808)
just lovely people.

Jane Ballard (41:11.363)
Yes, absolutely. We want to share the freedom in the piece that we found.

Natalie (41:17.807)
Exactly. And this is killing me. I'm looking up Peggy's book. I can't take it. I'm so sorry. So, and now I still don't have it in my phone. Anyway, Peggy, we got you.

Jane Ballard (41:23.192)
you

Jane Ballard (41:30.04)
Peggy, we will link your book in the show notes and I am going to buy it because I read it. OK.

Natalie (41:35.421)
I love it. So those are, yeah. So Annie Grace, Intoxicating Lies, Unbottle Potential, Peggy Coney's book, Alan Carr's How to Quit Drinking Without Willpower. That was another good one. Lauren McCallans, We Are the Luckiest, Catherine Gray's Unexpected Joy of Being, or Unexpected Joy of Being Sober. And again, I'm throwing all that out because I want you all to know there's a beautiful life that you don't know about yet.

Jane Ballard (41:47.214)
I've heard a lot of good stuff about Ellen Carr's book.

Jane Ballard (41:53.047)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (41:57.634)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (42:02.68)
There's so much. And Quit Like a Woman by Holly Whitaker. I love the way she talks about the history of alcohol and compares it to the cigarette industry and kind of the cultural illusion that people were under back then and how it's similar to now. And we're finally coming out of that now that the government is telling us this is a carcinogen and it has been since the 80s and there need to be warning labels.

Natalie (42:06.361)
yes.

Natalie (42:20.272)
Exactly.

Natalie (42:31.037)
And so what's fascinating to me when that came out, and I'm sure you were fascinated as well, this is not new information. This has existed for years.

Jane Ballard (42:41.102)
It was identified as a classified 1 % in the 80s. That was 40 years ago.

Natalie (42:44.559)
Exactly. There's many studies. And so when this all came out and all my friends were like, my gosh, I'm like, I don't mean to be mean y'all. Like this has existed. By the way, Peggy's book is called This Side of Alcohol. I had to find it, but beautiful story of how her journey and now she's, I forget how many years, a long time. So, but there's more of us out there and thank you for having me on. Thank you for letting me share and.

Jane Ballard (42:54.381)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (42:58.67)
This type of alcohol, I love that.

Jane Ballard (43:06.283)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (43:10.414)
Thank you so much for coming on. Yes. And I mean, I think that there are going to be so many people who will identify with your story and just this feeling that there's not another way. And then realizing, oh my gosh, you can quit for any reason. Yeah. So thank you. Thank you so much for coming on. yeah, we'll make sure and link your information and your group in the show notes so people can reach out to you.

Natalie (43:30.161)
You can quit. Absolutely.

Natalie (43:39.927)
I hope you do. And I always love when people hear me on a podcast or when I share, if you will send me a message and just say, hey, I heard you, it resonated, I will cheer you on. You know, I'm an Enneagram coach, but I haven't figured out what that looks like yet. So right now I just love to be a cheerleader. know, like whoever's trying to live our best life. Cause I kind of feel like I'm going into a wellness portion of the show. You know, it's a domino effect. Once you get rid of the alcohol and the poison,

Jane Ballard (43:59.596)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (44:05.655)
Yes.

Natalie (44:07.993)
Now it's like I need to clean my food up. Now I need to declutter. Now I want to, you know, be more mindful in my shopping. Like it's all, it all happens.

Jane Ballard (44:10.239)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (44:15.406)
Yes, you start peeling all the layers back. That is so true.

Natalie (44:19.863)
another good book, Jane, it's called The Year of Less. I just read that, life changed. Kate Flanders, two years sober when she wrote the book.

Jane Ballard (44:28.494)
Jane Ballard (44:32.299)
Okay.

Awesome, okay.

Natalie (44:36.669)
It's about basically decluttering, taking inventory, and not so minimalist, but basically living on less in the year of less.

Jane Ballard (44:44.812)
Yeah, I like that. I feel like we need less of a lot of things in life right now.

Natalie (44:50.141)
everything. And I hope that's the trend for 2025. know, my new comment, so my mom's been sick recently and I want to leave, I know we're going to wrap it up and I want to leave everybody with this. So my new screen saver, so my mom was really sick in January and she is getting better. And my mom is a bad-ass by the way. And her motto the whole time was everything is temporary, but that just resonated. I bought her a little sign for her kitchen.

Jane Ballard (45:02.22)
You have.

Natalie (45:18.567)
But it's the same thing with alcohol-free journey, the trigger, it's temporary. The feeling is temporary. that everything is temporary has just, so that's part of my screensaver. And then be mindful, be present, be patient. And that's after the year of less. So I want less. And I, again, for 2025, you know, this hustle culture, always on our phones, always on our Apple Watch.

Jane Ballard (45:23.124)
It is temporary.

Natalie (45:46.897)
getting ready the alcohol, I'm enjoying life. I, maybe it's the people I'm following, but I feel like there's a wellness trend coming and there's gonna be more in the moment. that's, yeah.

Jane Ballard (45:55.704)
think so. We want to be still and be present and see the sunset and hear our kids laughing and you know, just take it all in. Yeah. All right, Natalie. Well, thank you so much. It has been an absolute pleasure visiting with you today.

Natalie (46:06.957)
Absolutely. Absolutely.

Natalie (46:14.609)
Thank you so much. truly appreciate you and your beautiful spirit and everything that you do. Thank you.

Jane Ballard (46:20.27)
Thank you.