S1 E27 Breaking Free From Ambivalence: An Exercise In Merging the Subconscious and Conscious Parts of the Mind

Jane Ballard (00:02.799)
Hello, hello. Thank you for joining us today for another episode of mindful sobriety, the podcast. And I'm super excited because Amanda and I are on here together today. It's been a while since we have co -hosted an episode and we have something pretty special in store for all of you today. Bear with us because we might be bumbling through this, but I think that this exercise that we are going to do will have value.

I think anyone can relate to it. Anyone who is thinking about making some changes or has a goal, but you have some fears around it. I think you'll really benefit from hearing this exercise. But before we get started, Amanda, hi, how are you?

Amanda (00:48.846)
Hi, so excited to finally be back on the podcast together.

Jane Ballard (00:51.055)
Thank you.

I know it's been a while and really we haven't even I don't think we've seen each other in person since Bali. It's been a month and a half, which is crazy. I feel like these weeks have just flown by.

Amanda (01:02.67)
We have it.

Amanda (01:08.206)
They have. Yeah. And luckily we do have the upcoming sober in Dallas event. So we'll get to, I'm having, we're having a sleepover the night before, so that'll be good. And yeah, it was, I love our Friday calls for sure. Summer is just such a hard time, you know?

Jane Ballard (01:17.263)
Yes, I can't wait.

Jane Ballard (01:27.599)
Summer's a hard time. Every week is a little bit different, it seems like.

Amanda (01:31.022)
Yeah, so and I really also wanted to give myself time to, I guess I'll use the word grieve, everything going on with my older son, graduating and moving on to the next chapter of his life. And so I did that and it was a really beautiful experience.

Jane Ballard (01:33.135)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (01:42.063)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (01:50.031)
Yeah, and this is something you've been been anticipating since I met you a little over a year ago that you know this has been on your heart and you know you got back from Bali and then you had a few weeks and then graduation happened and now you're on the other side of it.

Amanda (01:56.11)
Yeah.

Amanda (02:04.494)
Yeah. Yes, absolutely. I'm feeling so good about it. Like I just, but it took some therapy sessions, you know, and it, like I had to let myself be depressed and accept that I felt sad and not try to fix that by means of drinking or whatever, any other substance. And then by doing that, I just kind of...

Jane Ballard (02:28.015)
Yeah. Yeah.

Amanda (02:33.006)
came out the other side feeling pretty good about everything.

Jane Ballard (02:37.391)
Yeah, it's interesting how when we let go of resistance and we just let the emotion be there, however painful it might be, rather than trying to distract or numb ourselves from it, it seems to become more tolerable and then it dissipates on its own, runs its course.

Amanda (02:56.238)
Yeah, I didn't really ever think about that when I was still drinking wine. I would, everything was just such an intense emotion and feeling for me. And I think it was just because I never really gave myself time to process it. Like if I had a sad feeling or an angry feeling, I would just be like, well, I need to have wine. And then I would never work my way through the process of processing all of it.

Jane Ballard (03:16.271)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (03:22.863)
That makes a lot of sense. Yeah, like let's say processing is a five step process and you would get to step one or two and then make it go away. And so you never really got into the actually the good and satisfying and healing part. Yeah. Yeah.

Amanda (03:37.742)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and you really just feel it over and over again, even if it's just a small portion of it, because then you begin to numb. When we allow ourselves to feel things, we definitely allow ourselves to heal.

Jane Ballard (03:53.167)
Absolutely.

Amanda (03:55.31)
So I was so excited when you messaged me about the topic today.

Jane Ballard (04:01.263)
Yes, yes. So we are going to be talking about identifying parts of ourselves. And this isn't about multiple personalities or anything, but we all have kind of these parts of ourselves and these ideas that we have, but it may not be unilaterally how we feel. For example, I might think that...

I don't know what's an example. What's the, what's the, yeah, go ahead. Yeah.

Amanda (04:28.91)
Well, I was thinking it could be nicotine, it could be alcohol, it could be a difficult relationship. But basically what came up for me when I was researching this topic is just, I think I'm actually a very ambivalent person. And how I can best describe that is things are, everything is both positive and negative.

Jane Ballard (04:48.431)
Yeah.

Amanda (04:55.566)
or there's a pro and a con to everything basically. Like I can see both sides of every situation. And so I can see how things can be both good and bad always.

Jane Ballard (05:09.551)
And there are, I think, certain personalities and temperaments that are able to see both sides, you know, and that's a blessing and a curse because sometimes it keeps you stuck.

Amanda (05:15.598)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I actually am really glad you said that because I have found myself stuck. I think because I can see both sides, pros and cons, positive and negative. I whereas some people might be really good at if someone has hurt them, just removing them from their life completely and not really giving it much thought just other than they were not good to me. So.

Jane Ballard (05:22.063)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (05:42.863)
Mm -hmm.

Amanda (05:47.086)
clearly I'm not gonna talk to them anymore. And for me, it's always like, but what if, you know, it changed into a positive relationship or remember that one time that she did something nice. And so I can, I think that the ambivalence for me and my most difficult relationship definitely.

Jane Ballard (05:49.711)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (05:59.727)
Mm -hmm.

Jane Ballard (06:03.343)
Yes. Yes.

Amanda (06:15.886)
does not work in my favor for sure.

Jane Ballard (06:18.735)
Yeah, yeah, it just kind of keeps you from making a decision.

Amanda (06:22.83)
Mm -hmm.

Jane Ballard (06:25.039)
So I love definitions and I want to talk for just a brief moment about what is ambivalence. And so I just looked it up. So I want to just read the definition for those of you who might be wondering exactly how to define this word. So according to the Merriam -Webster dictionary, ambivalence is simultaneous and contradictory attitudes or feelings.

such as great attraction and repulsion towards an object, person, or action. And so it's these two contradictory feelings that we hold at the same time. And this is a very normal human thing, but sometimes it doesn't help us when we need to choose one or the other or we need to take action. And so working through ambivalence to find clarity can be incredibly powerful in order to get some movement going on in life and healing.

Amanda (07:15.342)
Yeah.

Amanda (07:24.334)
Yeah. Would you agree that maybe possibly in the beginning of your alcohol -free journey, I know it was for mine. Like there was definitely before I did quit drinking, there was some ambivalence within me that was saying like, I know this is really bad for me and it's not making my life better. And I also know that it's a great social lubricant and.

Jane Ballard (07:41.231)
Yeah.

Amanda (07:50.318)
that I might lose a lot of friends if I quit. And just all these different knowings about the good and the bad parts of quitting alcohol that really stand in the way of people quitting.

Jane Ballard (07:59.887)
Right.

Jane Ballard (08:07.727)
Yes. Yeah, absolutely. For me, I had to get to the point where I was almost like willing to accept whatever my cons list was or my feared cons list. I just had to be like, you know what? I'm willing to accept that. And then I think it's like what usually happens, the worst case scenarios don't actually come to fruition. And it's been so much better than ever expected.

Amanda (08:18.254)
Mm -hmm.

Amanda (08:33.87)
Yeah, absolutely.

Jane Ballard (08:35.535)
Yeah.

Well, so Amanda, I had asked you, are you willing to do this identifying parts exercise to work through this ambivalence in this relationship in your life that you've had some feelings of being stuck with? So what are your thoughts? Are you willing to do this today?

Amanda (08:47.918)
Yes.

Amanda (08:59.598)
Yeah, absolutely. Just for the sake of keeping everybody's reputation at mind and heart. Like I definitely won't name any names or give any indication of who this person might be for me. But yes, I'm excited to go through this with you.

Jane Ballard (09:21.231)
Okay, awesome. So this involves a lot of subconscious thoughts. We're gonna be activating the subconscious mind. So before we get started, is it all right for your subconscious mind to, is it okay for you to integrate these parts today, your subconscious mind and your conscious mind and for you to be aware of it consciously? I'm not hypnotizing you or anything. You're gonna be totally aware of this consciously, but you're kind of like your subconscious mind is,

Amanda (09:44.078)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (09:51.055)
consenting. Okay, awesome. So let's start with the problem, kind of the two sides of this issue that different parts of you are bringing up. Can you describe that in a little bit of detail?

Amanda (09:52.302)
Yes, absolutely.

Amanda (10:09.39)
Yeah, so I would say that the things that make me want to not be a part of the relationship are this person always brings up the past and she was actually part of the past and the past was very painful at some points and so for me it's just

Jane Ballard (10:32.111)
Mm -hmm.

Amanda (10:36.782)
better, especially when it comes to this person if we don't talk about certain situations that happened a long time ago. And.

Jane Ballard (10:44.079)
And so she almost, it's almost like she brings up past trauma. She talks about traumatic experiences or yeah.

Amanda (10:47.214)
Yes. Yeah. And she'll always bring up other people that were part of that traumatic experience and has thought that I wasn't telling the truth about the traumatic experience and like just having that knowledge that someone believes that you would lie about.

traumatic experience that I won't get into detail about, but it just creates a lot of pain for me. And she's, she brings up,

She says what she means all the time. And I think it's what she means, but some people have a filter where they know.

Maybe you shouldn't say that even though it's true, like that person already knows they don't need you to tell them type of thing. So a whole lot of that type of stuff. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Jane Ballard (11:50.127)
Yeah, and there's a time and a place to bring certain things up. So the part of you that knows these things to be true, what does that part of you think you should do about this relationship?

Amanda (12:05.87)
That part of me thinks that I have got to disengage fully.

Jane Ballard (12:15.471)
Okay. Yeah. Okay. So in order to stay safe emotionally and to move forward and not be continually kind of retraumatized or having old wounds reopened, you feel like you need to disengage indefinitely. Yeah. Okay.

Amanda (12:34.638)
For sure, yeah. I think I've tried with this relationship and I know the outcome. And so I think I've known for years that I have to leave the relationship. But I think the ambivalence in me has kept me in the relationship, if that makes sense.

Jane Ballard (12:58.127)
for sure. So let's think about the other side of this, this other part of you that feels differently. How would you describe how that part of you feels?

Amanda (13:11.758)
Amanda (13:16.526)
hopeful that things will change.

Jane Ballard (13:21.295)
Okay.

Amanda (13:22.158)
almost like blindly hopeful, like there's no evidence type of situation. And like history has shown that once I decide to talk to this person again, I'll encounter a really, or there will be an encounter and it will go really well and it'll get me really excited about the relationship. And then the next encounter will be like,

Jane Ballard (13:28.559)
like denial kind of.

Yeah.

Amanda (13:51.885)
going back to how things have always been.

Jane Ballard (13:57.199)
So there's a pattern that happens here. And this part of you that thinks you should not disengage remembers the part of the pattern where things feel good and go well.

Amanda (14:11.246)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (14:18.991)
Okay.

Amanda (14:21.262)
I truly believe that like ambivalence is just something so deeply rooted into me that I don't even see it when I'm doing it. It's just like, I will be cut ties for a little while and then one day I'll just decide maybe things will be different and give it a try again. And I've been like this in other relationships before.

Jane Ballard (14:44.879)
Yeah.

Amanda (14:51.598)
I think with enough evidence, you eventually like have to either, you know, keep doing this thing to yourself that's harmful or just stop.

Jane Ballard (15:03.215)
Mm -hmm.

up. Yeah. The pattern will continue on for as long as you allow it to. For as long as you keep doing the same thing, the pattern will continue.

Amanda (15:16.974)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Jane Ballard (15:20.239)
Well, I wonder if I can talk to this part of you that believes that you should keep trying in this relationship. Would you be willing to close your eyes and take a deep breath and really get in touch with that part of you that thinks you should keep trying?

Jane Ballard (15:44.719)
Which hand, if that part of you was going to emerge from one of your hands, which hand would that be?

Jane Ballard (15:53.583)
Your right hand. Okay, so take your right hand and just place it with your palm facing up like you're holding your hand out to receive something. And imagine this part of you standing there on the palm of your hand.

Jane Ballard (16:11.503)
Who does this part look like?

Amanda (16:15.886)
When you say the person that I have that I'm holding in my right hand right now, what does she look like?

Jane Ballard (16:22.543)
This is a part of you, the part of you that thinks you should continue trying in this relationship.

Amanda (16:30.574)
It definitely feels like the child version of me, like a much younger version of me.

Jane Ballard (16:36.047)
Okay.

So a younger version of you. And what does she feel like?

Amanda (16:46.51)
This is the part that feels like we should keep trying or not keep trying.

Jane Ballard (16:51.919)
keep trying.

Amanda (16:54.702)
the part that, will you repeat the question one more time?

Jane Ballard (17:02.703)
Yeah, what does she feel like? This part of you that is maybe looks like a younger version of you and feels like you've got to keep trying. What does she feel like?

Amanda (17:13.518)
I think she's wants approval really bad like valid she wants to feel validated and

Yeah, I think she wants to feel validated, accepted, wanted, like she's valuable to this person.

Jane Ballard (17:35.535)
Yeah.

And what's her name? If you just any name that pops into your head, what would you name this part of you?

Amanda (17:50.574)
I don't know.

Amanda, without an A, -A -N -D -A.

Jane Ballard (17:57.871)
Amanda. Okay.

right.

Jane Ballard (18:05.871)
I'd also like to talk to the part of you that wants healing and wants to disengage from this harmful relationship.

this opposite side. Can you have it come out and stand on the other hand?

Amanda (18:24.814)
Mm -hmm.

Jane Ballard (18:26.767)
And just keep your eyes closed if you're comfortable with that.

Jane Ballard (18:34.415)
And who does this part sound like?

Amanda (18:42.446)
This is the part of myself that does want healing and kind of wants to move on from the relationship, right? This person is kind of like my whole self, like an adult, grown up version of myself.

Jane Ballard (18:47.695)
Right.

Jane Ballard (18:51.247)
Right.

Jane Ballard (19:02.799)
way.

She's older, she's grown up. What does she sound like?

Amanda (19:07.854)
She looks like me.

She sounds confident.

Jane Ballard (19:14.159)
Okay.

Jane Ballard (19:17.903)
confidence.

What does she feel like?

Amanda (19:25.038)
She doesn't doubt herself. She's still hurt, but she also...

experiences a lot of acceptance and she feels like...

Jane Ballard (19:39.471)
Mm -hmm.

Amanda (19:45.198)
Amanda (19:49.998)
Like just because someone has a title or is a part of your family doesn't necessarily make them a permanent part of your life.

Jane Ballard (20:03.055)
way.

It sounds like this part of you.

has done a lot of work and can see things in different ways than she could as a child.

Amanda (20:20.654)
for sure.

Jane Ballard (20:22.991)
Yeah. And what is this part's name?

Amanda (20:28.366)
Amanda.

Jane Ballard (20:30.287)
in the end.

Jane Ballard (20:42.671)
So let's just go back for a moment to Amanda, the younger part who wants to give this another try. For what purpose is she behaving this way?

Amanda (20:59.374)
behaving in the way that she wants to give it another try.

Jane Ballard (21:02.671)
Mm -hmm.

Amanda (21:10.542)
may I think just like for validation and acceptance and.

wanting to feel valued by this person, maybe wanting to feel like she was enough.

Jane Ballard (21:20.943)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (21:25.263)
Yeah. She wants the approval and the, she wants to be desired by the other person or loved by the other person.

Amanda (21:35.022)
Yeah. What was the first word that you used?

Jane Ballard (21:38.543)
desired, like not in a romantic or intimate sense, but just like she wants this person to pursue a relationship with her.

Amanda (21:40.11)
it was not desired. Right. But just, yeah.

Amanda (21:49.134)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Jane Ballard (21:50.447)
she wants to be wanted.

Jane Ballard (21:54.991)
Okay. And for what purpose does she want to be validated?

Amanda (22:11.598)
Maybe for part of validating herself, she's seeking validation from this person in order to validate herself.

Jane Ballard (22:26.895)
So she wants to be able to validate herself.

Jane Ballard (22:32.911)
Why does she want to validate herself?

Amanda (22:37.198)
because she can see that things can be better for her. And like, she can see that life can be really beautiful, but she's not there yet. And she's kind of trying to find her way there.

Jane Ballard (22:56.623)
Yeah, she can see the potential.

Amanda (22:59.086)
Mm -hmm.

Jane Ballard (23:02.703)
Why is she trying to get to that place where life is beautiful?

Amanda (23:18.414)
because she wants that for herself. She believes...

Amanda (23:29.87)
She's... I'm not sure how to answer that question, but she just wants to have a beautiful life.

Jane Ballard (23:39.791)
What is she? She wants to have a beautiful life. What would that feel like? What would she feel if she had a beautiful life? Emotion or...

Amanda (23:49.358)
accepted a part of something not easily replaced, valued.

Jane Ballard (23:51.951)
accepted.

Jane Ballard (24:04.687)
Yeah, like uniquely.

special and loved exactly how she is.

Jane Ballard (24:15.183)
Sounds like unconditional love.

Amanda (24:17.134)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (24:21.199)
way.

Amanda (24:21.646)
Definitely.

Jane Ballard (24:25.359)
Is it okay if I talk to the other part to Amanda and ask what purpose she serves?

Amanda (24:32.43)
Absolutely.

Jane Ballard (24:34.927)
time.

So Amanda in the left hand here.

What is the purpose of you?

desiring to disengage from this relationship or not even desiring, but feeling like this is the correct course of action for you.

Amanda (24:59.414)
Well, having gone through the conversation that we just went through, I feel like I am at a place in my life where I feel accepted and valued and I feel unconditional love. And so maybe I don't need it as much from anybody else.

if that makes sense.

Jane Ballard (25:26.831)
So what I'm hearing you say is that you love yourself unconditionally. You've learned how to do that.

Amanda (25:35.886)
I've learned how to love myself, yes.

Jane Ballard (25:40.303)
And once you learn that, it's really hard to unlearn it.

Amanda (25:44.138)
Yeah, it's really hard to let people treat you badly when you really love yourself.

Jane Ballard (25:45.199)
feels pretty good.

Jane Ballard (25:50.671)
Yeah, incongruent with.

what you know life can be. The beautiful part of life is filled with love, unconditional love for yourself. And when we love ourselves unconditionally, that love flows out of us to others. We tend to love others unconditionally. And then when we experience something other than that, you can see the stark contrast. And I wonder if that younger version of you almost didn't see the contrast. What has been as clear?

Amanda (26:25.134)
Yeah, definitely not.

Jane Ballard (26:27.887)
Yeah.

Okay, so.

With these with your hands out and you've got these two parts of yourself. You've got Manda over here in the right hand and Amanda in the left hand.

Jane Ballard (26:48.143)
I wonder if you've noticed that these two parts of you are beginning to come together.

They seemed in the beginning of this, they were at odds and they're beginning to find common ground. Maybe just place your hands together. Maybe near your heart. In the beginning, they were separated. One said, you have to keep trying. One said.

We need to disengage and move forward.

Jane Ballard (27:25.935)
And as they have been sharing today, it seems that what they both want in common is to be loved and accepted. And not just to be loved, but to live in a place of love where you, you love yourself and you love others and you love all beings and

You don't want to be hurt.

You want to be seen for who you are as a unique.

work of divine artistry. You don't want to be changed. You don't want to be criticized.

Jane Ballard (28:20.751)
You just want love and peace and connection.

Amanda (28:33.006)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (28:33.935)
So maybe we can end this exercise with the creation of almost like a future memory of.

Maybe thinking of your future self a year from now.

I wonder what you would say to that part of you when you get to that place.

Amanda (29:09.07)
I think something along the lines of I'm really glad that you were able to love yourself enough to remove yourself from a relationship and to do it in a loving way for everyone involved.

Amanda (29:36.398)
for the benefit of everyone, if that makes sense.

Jane Ballard (29:41.231)
Yes, yes, you are removing, you removing yourself from this relationship is an act of love to everyone involved because.

it will prevent.

acts of emotional violence from occurring basically.

Amanda (30:00.878)
Mm -hmm. Yeah. Absolutely.

Jane Ballard (30:05.487)
So one word you said that stuck out was glad. You would have some gratitude, some gladness to your future self for keeping you safe and allowing you even more space to continue to heal and.

live the beautiful life.

Amanda (30:25.898)
You said the word that stood out to you was glad.

Jane Ballard (30:30.735)
huh. That you said you would tell this future version of you, I'm glad you did this. I'm glad you did this for yourself. There's gratitude there.

Amanda (30:39.662)
Yeah, absolutely. So much gratitude.

Jane Ballard (30:50.447)
All right, well, how are you feeling? How are you feeling about the situation right now?

Amanda (30:52.91)
That was cool, Jane.

Well, that was totally different than I've, well, I mean, I wasn't like necessarily anticipating what it would be like. I just had no idea. And that was really neat. I've always wanted to do like a conscious for first subconscious type of situation. Like I've heard other people do this and I think that was really neat. And it was a unique topic for it as well.

Jane Ballard (31:05.647)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (31:15.471)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (31:24.175)
For sure. Yeah. What did it feel like as you were doing it to, I mean, it can feel kind of weird to be talking to these parts of yourself, but I think there is something powerful about it if you can kind of let go of the awkwardness of it. How did it feel for you?

Amanda (31:34.542)
Mm -hmm.

Amanda (31:43.758)
I felt really good. I always, not always, but when I attempt inner child work, I can visualize my inner child and I always like have compassion for her, but I've never like spoken to her. And so, or tried to find out what she was trying to say. So that was powerful for sure.

Jane Ballard (32:06.959)
Yeah. Yes, like letting her speak and getting in touch with her voice and her thoughts and what she looked like and felt like.

Amanda (32:16.59)
It makes me understand why letting go of this relationship has been such a process for me because the little girl in me still wants, I'm still in there, she's still in there, you know, and she was wanting the validation, the approval and the acceptance. And so there's still that little girl in me that is, when I have this person in my life wanting those things from her and...

Jane Ballard (32:30.095)
Yeah, she's still in there.

Jane Ballard (32:44.527)
Absolutely.

Amanda (32:45.134)
but at the same time, the adults, and I'll say sober version of me.

Amanda (32:55.662)
Phil's accepted and all of those things just not from this person. So it's kind of like a, I can see how it's been, why it's been so difficult. I have to jump off the call, Jane. I'm so sorry.

Jane Ballard (32:59.343)
Mm hmm. Right.

Jane Ballard (33:07.087)
Yes, like that desire. okay. No, that's okay. Well, Amanda, thank you so much for doing this today. That was beautiful and yeah, thank you.

Amanda (33:21.262)
That was beautiful.

We should, you can edit this part out, but we should definitely make some videos for Instagram of this one because I feel like that it's gonna be a good one. Yeah. All right, sister, I gotta jump on the meeting. All right, bye.

Jane Ballard (33:35.055)
It's going to be a good one. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Let's talk soon. Okay. Bye.

Amanda (33:42.99)
It was so good to see you.

Jane Ballard (33:44.751)
So good to see you.

Jane Ballard (33:57.967)
So I hope you enjoyed this exercise today and hopefully it sparked some curiosity for you. Maybe would it be helpful for you to think outside the box and get in touch with these other parts of yourself? You know, we have these parts that have different thoughts and feelings and sometimes it can feel really affirming to know that.

They have a common goal. They're all on the same team. They just have different ideas about how to get there and maybe kind of working through how to get them on the same page to remove some of the tension that comes from ambivalence. And today, Amanda and I did this with a relationship, a relationship concern, but this could really be applied to anything. This could be applied to...

a habit that you want to change. It could be applied to your career, maybe, you know, where you're going to live. Maybe you're thinking about moving or making some kind of change in your life. This is a really powerful and creative technique that can be used in all sorts of ways. So I would love to hear from you. If you have any questions, send them my way. You can.

reach out to either Amanda or I on Instagram, @janewballard and @dfwyogagirl or shoot me an email. My email is jane@janewballard.com. All right, well, thanks for listening and look forward to connecting next time.