S1 E11 The Sober Curious Movement and Why Labels Aren't Always Helpful

Amanda (00:02.638)
Hey Jane, how are you today?

Jane Ballard (00:05.252)
Hey, I am great. How are you doing, Amanda?

Amanda (00:08.246)
I'm really excited to talk about labels and the sober curious movement and how all of that stuff is affecting everyone right now.

Jane Ballard (00:20.196)
Yes, I, it's funny. I didn't even know about the sober curious movement until about two years ago. I had a client mention it to me and I was so just excited that it opens up a space for a whole new conversation that includes so many more people. I just love how inclusive it is and it's, it's not about labeling or.

following rules, it's just about having a conversation and looking at what's working and what's not working in your life.

Amanda (00:57.902)
Yeah, we really are living in such a dynamic time where it's like, you know, people talk about what is the style for this year or what is what's, you know, what's trending and what's trending is the alcohol free lifestyle. Having a sober mind is totally trending. So.

Jane Ballard (01:11.908)
Thanks.

It is. It's like the new high is being fully awake and fully alive and fully aware of every thing that you're experiencing, every thought, every emotion, and just being curious and knowing you can get through it. And there's something exhilarating about that.

Amanda (01:36.302)
Absolutely. Yeah. So I know one of the things we're going to talk about today is labels. So just I was doing some research this morning and labels basically give the impression that there's two types of people, the people with the label and then the normal people. And so, you know, that just whenever we have a label that we've put on ourselves or someone else, it just makes that person or ourselves feel different and bad.

like there's something wrong with us.

Jane Ballard (02:08.728)
Right, like if you are part of this label, then you are part of this exclusionary category. And the very essence of exclusion leads to a feeling of shame. When you think about, you know, every emotion has a purpose that's related to our survival as a species. And the purpose of shame,

Amanda (02:24.398)
Absolutely.

Jane Ballard (02:37.444)
and how it relates to our survival is that, you know, in the days of tribal cultures, people needed to be part of a tribe to stay alive. And if they behaved in a way that was socially unacceptable,

they would be kicked out of their tribe and then be exposed to the elements and to dangers and they would lose access to food. And so this feeling of shame kept them from wanting to behave in a way that would get them kicked out and you know put their life in danger. And so shame I suppose from that perspective isn't all bad but these days I feel like shame

doesn't do us a lot of good. I can't think of a time when shame has been helpful. Guilt, on the other hand, maybe, but shame is just so painful and damaging and causes people to withdraw and just stay kind of hidden and isolated.

Amanda (03:44.334)
Yeah, I mean, if we really come back to two forms of shame, which would be condemnation and conviction, like if we are condemning someone, you know, it's like we're saying they're bad or we're bad. And if we're convicting, and the word convicting can sound really harsh too, but.

It's all about perception and conviction can be just realizing that.

Maybe you did something that you wish you hadn't done. And, you know, there's an opportunity for change, whereas condemnation is like, you're a bad person. Only bad people would do that.

Jane Ballard (04:26.948)
It's like you internalize the mistake rather than saying the mistake is bad. You've internalized that you are bad because you've made this mistake and that's not helpful.

Amanda (04:29.326)
Mm -hmm.

Amanda (04:36.268)
Mm -hmm. Yeah, absolutely. So I wrote down some of the labels that we hear a lot. Alcoholic, addict, drunk, selfish, loser, lazy, fat, weak, follower. I feel like follower can be a label that we can take on easily, whereas...

We might feel like being a leader is the better option and it might be, we might think that it's bad to be a follower. And if we put that follower label on ourselves, it's very unlikely that we're ever going to try to bleed anything.

Jane Ballard (05:19.332)
That is a good point. If we internalize that we are only meant for following, we may never take the risk to take a leadership role because it's too scary and we assume automatically that we would fail, that we're not qualified.

Amanda (05:35.758)
Yeah, I mean, it's really deep. Now that we're now that you just said that I'm I had a moment with myself where I'm like, I, I have identified as a follower. And I do have some follower traits for sure. But we can be two things at the same time, you know.

Jane Ballard (05:53.22)
Absolutely, and it depends on the situation too. Like there are many situations where I would much rather be a follower and feel like I'm much more suited to following and then there are other situations where I Want to lead and I feel like I have something to offer But it just it's nuanced, you know, I'm not one or the other. I'm I am both depending on the circumstances

Amanda (06:17.934)
Yeah, it's like there's a time for following and there's a time for leading. We can bring this back to yoga retreats. We both like to attend yoga retreats and follow the leader and learn and be the student. And, you know, I always want to be the student in life, but especially in a retreat setting, you know, I like to be the student, but I also like to be the leader of a retreat. So that's just an example of we can be both the follower and the leader.

Um...

Jane Ballard (06:46.82)
Absolutely. And I think the other thing has to do with kind of your relationship or your tolerance to failure. I think that oftentimes we feel that failure is a bad thing and if there's a chance of failure we should just not do the thing. And...

In my opinion, we must be willing to fail and be willing to do it over and over and over again. And that is how success eventually happens is through learning and trying and not letting ultimate failure be an option, but knowing that failure along the way is inevitable.

Amanda (07:24.174)
Absolutely. And all of these negative labels that we put on ourselves and others lead to self -limiting beliefs. Because just like with the follower and the leader, if I believe myself to be a loser, I'm not going to try very hard to set goals and have ambition. But if I change the label to I'm capable,

You know, I'm going to be much more goal oriented.

Jane Ballard (07:58.02)
Absolutely. You know, it makes me think of cognitive behavioral therapy and this idea that our emotions, typically our emotions are preceded by a thought or a narrative. And we have all these different thinking traps that we fall into, whether it's black and white thinking or jumping to conclusions, fortune telling, mind reading. And one of the most common ones that many

of us I know I do fall into is labeling. And that could be labeling ourselves or labeling others. And you know it makes sense why we do that. Our brains love shortcuts. You know we like to put things in categories and make things simple but that's just not the reality of life and the world we live in. Nothing is as clear -cut as we would like it to be and when we open up to nuance it leads to such a richer...

Amanda (08:34.894)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (08:56.766)
experience with so many more opportunities and so much more flexibility. So one way to think about it is going from a place of cognitive rigidity and having the goal of cognitive flexibility from going to a closed mindset to an open mindset. And part of that is realizing, okay, how am I labeling myself? And let me get curious about that. I don't want to judge myself for doing it or tell myself I have to stop that immediately, but let me just get curious about that.

Where's that coming from? Where did I hear that? When did I start labeling myself in this way? Is it helpful? Is it not helpful? Even if I feel like it's mostly accurate, even if I feel like it's accurate, is it helpful? And if not, is there another way to look at that? Just a little bit more flexibility.

Amanda (09:33.134)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Amanda (09:46.318)
Yeah, I would say that I'm an incredibly gifted fortune teller for myself in the most negative way possible because and I, I don't I, you know, I love yoga retreats. So I'm going to revert this back to a yoga retreat. I will get in my head and have these ideas like it's going to be terrible. It's not going to go great. It's you can't do this, you know, and then, you know, before the yeah, all all the negative things. Uh huh.

Jane Ballard (10:10.98)
No one will sign up or they'll think I suck or...

Amanda (10:15.886)
And then it's like, no, what if it's freaking awesome? And yeah, what if you were made to do this? What if this is your purpose? So like every thought has a counter thought and it is up to us to choose that. The thought that gives you life instead of limits you.

Jane Ballard (10:20.26)
if it's freaking awesome!

Jane Ballard (10:38.628)
Yes, and you know a lot of times our thoughts aren't completely in our control. You know the thoughts are going to pop into our mind and that is not voluntary. You know we will have intrusive thoughts or we will have topics that just occur to us and you know the thought will pop into our mind, it will occur to us, then we will become aware of it and once we become aware of it then we have a choice. What do I do with this?

Amanda (11:06.766)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (11:06.884)
Do I continue to get entangled and go down the rabbit trail with this thought and spin this narrative? Or do I just get curious about it and think, hmm, is that really accurate? Is that really helpful? You know, when I have this thought, what emotion comes up for me with it? Do I feel anxious or do I feel ashamed or do I feel hopeless or down?

If so, like is there another option? Is there another way to look at it? What would I say to my child or my close friend or?

Amanda (11:37.87)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (11:44.226)
you know, somebody that I love and care about.

Amanda (11:46.798)
Yeah. So what I'm hearing you say is like the most important thing is to bring awareness to it without judgment.

Jane Ballard (11:55.012)
Yes, without judgment, yes, non -judgmental awareness, just getting curious, getting a little bit playful with it, not taking it so seriously.

Amanda (12:06.094)
Yeah, and then challenging it, questioning it without judgment. Is this label true? Is this label serving me? Where did it even come from? You know, who told me this? You know, like, who told me this? And really taking some time with that because a lot of our labels and limiting beliefs come from our childhood in a lot of ways, and some of them don't, but...

Jane Ballard (12:18.892)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (12:31.204)
Thank you.

Amanda (12:33.774)
Sometimes it will take a lot of time to, I still have labels that I have on myself that I have no idea where they came from. And I have some, a lot of work to do there. Um, but just like really giving your time self the time coming back to yoga retreats, you know, taking some time going somewhere where you can focus on yourself and digging deep into limiting beliefs and labels and all of the things that are no longer serving you.

Jane Ballard (12:43.908)
Absolutely.

Jane Ballard (13:03.076)
And one of the beautiful things about yoga retreats is that oftentimes when you're there, it's all new people and nobody has these preconceived notions of you. Nobody's given you labels yet. And so you can just kind of shed those and be who you are. Let yourself behave authentically and say what comes up and it's fun. It's kind of like a little experiment.

Amanda (13:28.558)
Yeah, absolutely. I was thinking about that in a different kind of way though a few days ago. I was thinking about the enneagrams and I was thinking what if instead of us me taking the enneagram I say I have say like my husband take the enneagram for me because sometimes people that know us and love us and are with us and see our habits and ways of being all the time.

Jane Ballard (13:48.674)
Ooh, yeah.

Amanda (13:57.87)
Sometimes it's easier for them to explain, answer questions about us than it is for us, if you know what I mean.

Jane Ballard (14:08.26)
Yeah, yeah, they have a different view of us. They can, they're seeing us from the outside. I agree with that. However, I will say that an Enneagram expert will tell you that only you can type yourself because it's based on motivation and that motivation can't be observed. However, I...

Amanda (14:13.934)
And I think sometimes we...

Jane Ballard (14:34.052)
a very bad habit of typing my clients and typing my family members and I will tell you I have a very high success rate of typing my clients and then them verifying that I got it right. So yes, yes. So any Enneagrams experts out there we know we're not supposed to have other people type us but it would be an interesting

Amanda (14:44.686)
That is hilarious. Yeah, you've typed me before. That's hilarious. I love it. I love it.

Jane Ballard (15:03.298)
perspective to see what he's picking up on. Maybe you have a blind spot too.

Amanda (15:04.366)
Mm -hmm.

Amanda (15:08.142)
Yeah, absolutely. And being open to, you know, people speaking into our lives is really powerful instead of being defensive.

Jane Ballard (15:17.956)
Absolutely, yes.

Amanda (15:19.498)
Another, when it comes to labels, so it's important to ask ourselves, like, of course, is it true? Where did it come from? Is it serving me? Who would I be without this label? And you can even ask, like, even if it's not true now, has it ever been true? Because that label may have been true for you 20 years ago, but it, you know, we're not our labels, so.

Jane Ballard (15:41.476)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (15:46.756)
Right. You know, it's funny when you were saying that I was thinking about this. I was listening to Will Smith in some interview the other day and he was talking about how oftentimes when we're looking at what other people think and trying to meet their expectations, it's like looking in a broken mirror. And we look in this broken mirror and we say, am I pretty? Am I smart? Am I good?

And that mirror is distorted. You know, what other people are thinking. Maybe their values are different of what they think is good. But we are trying to conform ourselves to meet these standards from these broken mirrors. And I thought that was so powerful. Like, maybe I don't even want to be accepted by the judgment. You know, the people who are judging me, maybe I don't agree with them. And so,

their opinions valid for them, but it's not in align with my value system. And that was very freeing, you we can let that go and we can decide for ourselves. Like, how do I want to interact in the world? How do I want to treat people? What's important to me? How do I want to spend my time and my energy and my money and.

and then just kind of have this radical acceptance of self and living life on your own terms. You know, as long as you're not harming other people, and I feel like as long as I'm living by my values, which don't harm other people, that's what matters.

Amanda (17:26.402)
Absolutely. I think looking at it, how Will Smith said through a shattered mirror or shattered glass is a great way to look at it. I, what that makes me think of is seeking validation from people, the wrong people, you know, and like, and being really careful about who we truly allow to speak into our lives, you know, like, like you said,

If there is a certain person that maybe we shouldn't care what their opinion is, like I can definitely speak to that a million percent, like seeking validation from the wrong person. When I really take a good look at myself, I care. I care about a lot of people don't get me wrong, but the people that like I would say that I am in love with and love deeply and

Jane Ballard (18:12.004)
Great.

Amanda (18:25.87)
I truly care what they think. You know, I can count on.

one to two hands for sure. And I, but at the same time, I've spent many years seeking validation from people, one person in particular. And, and to this day, I find myself wanting to reach out to her, this person, and just tell her what I have going on to, so I can get like this validation, like for her to tell me she's proud of me, or like,

Jane Ballard (19:00.438)
Yes.

Amanda (19:00.782)
You're amazing, Amanda. Like that's so great. But every time I go to call or text her these days, I make myself like take a step back and validate myself because because sometimes we'll never get what we're looking for in that person, no matter how hard we try.

Jane Ballard (19:05.06)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (19:19.812)
so true.

Yes.

Amanda (19:25.326)
And that's hard.

Jane Ballard (19:25.412)
It's like, it's so hard. It's a grieving process, you know? Like, I don't know, I had a hurtful interaction with somebody yesterday and I found myself asking, why do I keep expecting something different, you know?

And it's like, I don't even know that I did expect something different, but it still hurts. It's like, even if you expect someone to punch you in the face, it's still gonna hurt when they punch you in the face. And so then it's like, well, do I need to have a different boundary? And I don't know, because I think there's consequences to more rigid boundaries too. There's also a grieving process with that. So I don't know what the solution is, but I think eventually it is cultivating.

a sense of non -attachment to those individuals that can't.

that aren't going to be the way we want them to be in relationships. And so that we can have a stance of kindness towards them and also kindness towards ourselves. And I don't know, maybe it's about taking the ego out of it.

Amanda (20:45.166)
Yeah, I'm just curious, is this person, would you say that they're emotionally like unavailable? Emotionally? Yeah. Yeah, I feel like the people that we have this ongoing situation with seem to be very emotionally unavailable and.

Jane Ballard (20:56.726)
Extremely. Extremely. Yeah.

Amanda (21:10.478)
And we are very emotional creatures, you and I, and a lot of women. And if you're doing the self work, you're probably very emotionally available. And so whenever there's someone that's not on that level, and I'm not saying that's good or that's bad. I'm just saying that it might not be in alignment. And that's, that's probably why you struggle with that a little bit, you know?

Jane Ballard (21:37.412)
And I think this person probably doesn't value being emotionally aware and in touch with emotions. And so, you know, it just kind of is what it is. I guess we have different values is what it comes down to.

Amanda (21:57.998)
Yeah, absolutely. And on like when you brought up setting boundaries for so many years, the person that I was running to for validation, I would.

Amanda (22:17.39)
my train of thought.

Jane Ballard (22:20.1)
boundaries, the person you would run to.

Amanda (22:21.294)
Oh yeah. So I would set this boundary in my mind. Like say I would have a conversation with my husband and say, I'm going to set this boundary with so -and -so. And, and I wasn't really doing the work yet. So I didn't really get it all totally yet. And so I would go to this person with my boundary and tell her I've set this boundary and you can't cross it. Like, not like that. But you know, after doing the work, I realized like these boundaries are for us.

Like we may not even have to voice that we set the boundary with this person. It's just something that we've created within ourselves. And, you know, in the proper moment we may say it, but, you know, it's never, or not usually about running to someone to tell them what they can or can't do or need to do different.

Jane Ballard (23:12.42)
That's a really good point. There's a difference between a boundary and a request. A boundary requires no action on the part of the other person. A boundary is something that we do in response to somebody else's action. You know, I remove myself from the situation or I hang up the phone or I no longer spend time with you in these settings or whatever.

A request is, please don't speak to me in that tone. You know, a request requires the cooperation of another person, a boundary does not.

Amanda (23:54.638)
Yeah, I think that the word boundary can feel and sound really confusing because when you hear boundary, it does sound like something you're going to go do, like tell someone about so that they don't cross that line anymore. Like that was how I used to feel about a boundary or think about it. And it is nice to actually understand what a boundary truly is now.

Jane Ballard (24:02.244)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (24:11.46)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (24:21.316)
Yes, yeah, it's like, it's actually more empowering because it just requires you to hold yourself accountable to take the action that you've agreed to take. You know, you've agreed with yourself that I'll no longer endure these types of situations or interactions.

Amanda (24:39.982)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

So I know we were talking a little bit about the Sober Curious Movement before we came on the podcast. So it's exciting like that all of the women that are signed up for our Bolly Retreat are interested in the Sober Curious Movement.

Jane Ballard (24:52.196)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (25:05.476)
Yes, absolutely. We filled that last spot yesterday. So, so, so excited. So excited for this group of women. And, you know, I think that the Sober Curious movement has just opened up.

Amanda (25:12.206)
Me too.

Jane Ballard (25:24.036)
this conversation for so many more people. It's not about meeting a medical diagnosis of alcohol use disorder or substance use disorder. It's not about having a label or having a problem. It's about looking at this substance objectively and making choices about whether or not.

the cost is too high. Does the benefit of having the substance in your life outweigh the cost?

and maybe you don't want to give it up completely and so then how do you have the lowest cost with the highest benefit? You know I think it's all about changing the conversation so that alcohol use isn't just a given. You know in so much of our culture it's just a given that if you are celebrating or if you're going out or if you're relaxing or you're having leisure time if you're not working you're going to be having a drink and I love that that's changing.

Amanda (26:23.438)
Yeah, it's almost like.

you just do, you just drink that, you know, until you don't, you just drink. And it's not like, it's almost like just something you kind of feel like you are supposed to do, or you have to do because you're an adult and that's what adults do. And, um, now the sober.

Jane Ballard (26:43.044)
I'm at a restaurant and I've ordered a nice meal so I should have some wine or a cocktail with it.

Amanda (26:49.23)
Yeah, and that's one of the many great things about this Overcurious Movement is just bringing awareness to this is not something we have to do. This is a choice and asking ourselves, you know, like, is this serving me now? And like you said this before, I have...

received all of the benefits from alcohol that I'm going to receive. And I will not deny that I had some good times with alcohol. And there's no shame in that for sure. Like, you know, in my twenties, we had a great time going out with other adults and going to bars and drinking and drinking with dinner and doing all that stuff. We had a great time and I love that we did, you know? But, you know, for some people, we just...

Jane Ballard (27:26.18)
Yes, I did too.

Amanda (27:47.438)
get to a point in our lives where alcohol is not serving us and it's not doing us any favors. And we just kind of want to create a life we don't want to escape from.

Jane Ballard (28:01.06)
Absolutely. Yeah, I think when you realize you have more autonomy than you realize over how you live your life and if you need a substance to numb or deaden the emotions that are coming up as a response to life, maybe it's not about using the substance. Maybe it's about just making some changes in how you live.

Amanda (28:21.998)
Yeah. And the great thing about the sober curious movement is you, not you specifically, but anybody that's curious, sober curious, you get to make your own rules. If drinking on the holidays is what you want to do, that is what you get to do. It's nobody is here to say you can't drink. If you wanted to drink less, you know, we support you. If you want to drink.

every couple months or once a month or on the weekends or you know we support you. This is just all about like mindful living and if you know you want to be completely sober we support you in that as well.

Jane Ballard (29:06.468)
Absolutely, and it's all about just the journey. It's not like you get there and you arrive and you're done. It's just about figuring out what you need in the present moment and living in a way that feels good and that aligns with what's important to you.

Amanda (29:29.422)
Yeah. And like a big part of that is just like this sober mind that comes from being alcohol and substance free because we don't have any filters of, you know, whether it's alcohol or a drug or, you know, a prescription like Xanax, like there are no, there's nothing mind altering going on. It's just completely natural and holistic and God given. And so I can trust it, you know?

So it's just, I am exactly as I am and there's nothing that I'm gonna do or have done recently that is going to change that because, you know, when you're not putting anything extra into your body, the only thing you can really do to change, you know, your mood is natural things like to increase your dopamine. Yeah.

Jane Ballard (30:23.94)
Yes, you could meditate or exercise or do yoga or dance or listen to music or laugh with your friends or hug your children. There's so many wonderful options.

Amanda (30:28.044)
Uh huh.

Amanda (30:35.79)
Absolutely. And I mean, if you really think about it, it's not just alcohol. Like we're addicted to so many different things in this country. You know, it's like we are addicted to dopamine, you know, like, yeah, we're, we're addicted to pleasure and instant gratification and.

Jane Ballard (30:51.972)
sure we are yes

Amanda (31:02.99)
I read, I'm reading a book right now called Dopamine Nation and it is.

Jane Ballard (31:07.012)
Yes, I want to read that. I've heard so many good things about it.

Amanda (31:10.03)
It is eye opening for sure. And it is not a PG book. You would think with it being like kind of a self -help or that type of book that, yeah, it's very science -based and it's like a therapist giving stories of her clients. And I was shocked at how detailed it was. So yeah, definitely check it out.

Jane Ballard (31:23.588)
like science -based.

Jane Ballard (31:36.27)
fascinating. Yeah, I'll have to read that. I mean, I think that those dopamine urges, you know, we want to check our phone, we want to check social media, we constantly are FaceTiming with people, you know, it's not like you go out of town and you don't talk to someone or see them for a few days, you can FaceTime and see them at any point. So I think as a culture.

Amanda (31:39.918)
Yeah.

Amanda (31:58.626)
Mm -hmm.

Jane Ballard (32:04.42)
It's a whole new world, you know, compared to when I was growing up in the 90s.

Amanda (32:10.734)
Yeah, we get addicted to what feels good. And like in the book, Dopamine Nation, she talks about one of the guys that was addicted to a drug. I don't remember which one, but he got off of the drug and he started doing ice baths and he became addicted to ice baths. And you know, we can have some really positive addictions, you know, like if...

Jane Ballard (32:14.468)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (32:38.632)
Yes.

Amanda (32:38.638)
this is where we have to ask like is this serving us and in that case it can serve you.

Jane Ballard (32:46.638)
That's a really good point. And there probably does come a point where even good things become counterproductive, you know, like being addicted to exercise or even like if you look at orthorexia, which is like, it's a disordered eating style or living style where people are, they eat super quote unquote clean and cut out all.

products that might be unclean and that sort of thing. And it becomes a disorder because it gets in the way of them being able to function in areas of their life. And so I think it's all about balance.

Amanda (33:26.926)
Yeah, in the book where the guy started taking ice baths, it did get out of control. Like he continued to do the ice baths and then he would drop the temperature like lower and lower and lower and stay in there longer. And he was doing it like before work and after work. And he, he reported that he did get high, like he was experiencing a high from it. And yeah, so anything that is done within balance.

can definitely become unhealthy.

Jane Ballard (33:58.18)
Yes, like he could get hypothermia or I mean, I'm sure that could be hard on his circulatory system and his heart. That's fascinating.

Amanda (34:00.494)
Absolutely.

Amanda (34:06.958)
So I think like the goal, my goal is to get to a place and have an intention of like digging everything up that I can find that's leading me to a place where I can't just be exactly as I am without having to do anything extra. And of course, you know, like working out.

five days a week or three days a week or whatever, it's helpful and it's not out of control. And we want to do things like that that are helpful for ourselves, but it's also important to just be able to be present with yourself and not need anything, any extra bonuses to feel okay.

Jane Ballard (34:55.524)
and to have flexibility with yourself and like with working out, let's say you have a goal that you want to work out four times a week, but can you listen to your body and if you're feeling run down or you're really sore or you're tired or sleep deprived, can you take a day off and be okay with it?

Amanda (35:12.896)
Absolutely. Yeah. My husband's training for a bodybuilding competition right now. And it is like, it's very intense and it's very regimented and every workout and every thing he puts in his mouth is scheduled and he, he definitely won't go off of what he's supposed to do. He, he definitely follows the rules. And I get it like training for a competition like that, but.

If someone were to do that every day of their life, that would be very unhealthy because it is so important when our bodies are tired. Like I know for myself that on Thursday and Friday, like I'm more tired and I'm probably not going to work out on those days because I need to listen to my body and be still.

Jane Ballard (35:44.676)
Thanks for watching!

Amanda (36:05.186)
Whereas like I just have more it. Yeah.

Jane Ballard (36:05.764)
Yeah, it's like you have to use it for us.

Amanda (36:12.558)
And, you know.

Jane Ballard (36:13.668)
So I guess circling, oh, go ahead.

Amanda (36:16.494)
I was just going to say, acknowledging yourself for that is really helpful as well, because I can remember 10 years ago, if I were to say, like, I'm not going to work out on Thursdays and Fridays because I'm going to listen to my body and I'm tired. I'd be like, you're terrible. Like shame on you. You should be going to the gym. Why don't you try harder, work harder? And instead of doing that, like shifting, yeah, just work harder.

Jane Ballard (36:43.588)
Just push yourself.

Amanda (36:47.126)
Everybody else is going to the gym and can work out five days a week. But instead of, you know, just countering that, that thought, that lazy label, countering it to like, no, I like, I'm very mindful of my body and I'm going to rest today.

Jane Ballard (37:06.308)
It's like an act of self -compassion and you know being compassionate towards this vessel that is carrying you through life and letting it rest when it needs to.

Amanda (37:15.086)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (37:19.236)
So circling back to labels, I would say for our listeners, if we were to kind of have some pointers on what to do with labels, I think one thing to think through is get in touch with your thinking patterns. Like, what are your go -to labels? Do you find yourself labeling yourself? A lot of times our thoughts are automatic.

And we don't even realize they're there until we slow down, we start paying attention to our thoughts. And so I think that's the first step is just to recognize what are your labels? Where are they coming from? Getting curious and then reframing, you know?

Amanda (38:00.706)
Yeah.

Absolutely. It would be helpful to make a list like over the next couple of weeks, just write down any words that come up that you feel like you have attached to yourself and that are not serving you in a positive way. And then maybe write the counter word to that on the other side of the page.

Jane Ballard (38:23.14)
That's a great way to do it. Yeah. Yeah. Just like something I've been beating myself up for over the last couple of weeks is always running late. I am always running late. And just that me saying always like I shouldn't be using this always never kind of thing. And so, you know, I don't want to internalize that as like, well, I'm irresponsible or I can't get my shit together or.

people can't rely on me. It's like, no, let me get curious about this. Why am I always late? You know, do I have too much going on? Am I tired? Am I run down? Am I starting to feel burnt out? Do I need to take a step back? Or maybe I need to like set my alarm a little bit earlier or not hit snooze anymore. You know, what can I do differently? How can I get curious about this? Or can I just accept that?

You know, that's not one of my gifts, being on time.

Amanda (39:23.054)
Yeah, and love yourself exactly as you are. Cause you're doing so many things right, you know? And if the one thing that you're doing, yeah, if you're doing, if you have a list of 10 things you're doing fantastically, one thing that you're just not quite meeting the bar on, which is being late, then you're doing pretty good.

Jane Ballard (39:26.404)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (39:30.34)
That's a good point. I'm doing some things right.

Jane Ballard (39:45.028)
We can't be perfect.

Amanda (39:46.318)
Right. I mean, I wish we could. That'd be really great.

Jane Ballard (39:49.188)
I wish we could. Yeah, wouldn't that be nice? Just smooth sailing, skate through life.

Amanda (39:58.318)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, labels, we could go on and on about labels, but.

Jane Ballard (40:01.144)
Yeah.

Amanda (40:09.198)
If anybody is looking to get in touch and become aware of their own labels, just bring some awareness to your thinking, make a list and and then question if those things are true or not.

Jane Ballard (40:10.372)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (40:23.332)
Yeah, absolutely. All right. Well, it's good seeing you and next week we will have, I believe Alex is coming on. So that'll be a fun episode. I'm looking forward to that.

Amanda (40:34.38)
Yay! Yes, I am too. So excited.

Jane Ballard (40:40.62)
All right, I'll talk to you soon.

Amanda (40:42.06)
Alrighty, sister.