S1 E10 The Real Sober Stories With Anne

Jane Ballard (00:03.034)
And thank you so much for joining us today. We are so excited to hear your story and have you on the podcast today.

Anne Nicely (00:12.714)
I feel honored to be here, so thank you so much. Thank you guys for having me, hanging out with me on Sunday evening.

Amanda (00:21.554)
Yeah

Jane Ballard (00:21.918)
Absolutely. Well, maybe to start out, tell us a little bit about your background, kind of where you grew up and what early life was like for you.

Anne Nicely (00:35.398)
Okay, well I grew up in Springfield, Kentucky, which is a really small rural area. Not big at all. We have like five, maybe six stoplights now, so that kind of tells you anything. It's little. And we don't have a Walmart, so it's real, it's real little. Yep. It does now, yeah.

Jane Ballard (00:58.874)
Wow, that's tough. Does Amazon Prime go out there?

Amanda (01:00.362)
That is tiny.

Amanda (01:04.953)
Yeah.

Anne Nicely (01:05.638)
Yeah, but that's where I grew up. So, but I live in Lexington now. So it's, you know, when I moved here like 20 years ago, it was like, wow, I'm in New York. Like this place is huge. Yes. I know. But yeah, I grew up pretty much like I was, I grew up with my mom and dad, but I'll, I'll get in to.

Jane Ballard (01:05.966)
That's good.

Jane Ballard (01:11.68)
Okay.

Jane Ballard (01:18.851)
The city, city life.

Amanda (01:20.519)
It's amazing.

Anne Nicely (01:33.734)
more detail about that. But I also was with my grandparents a lot and got to grow up on a dairy farm. So that was just super cool to get to, you know, I think back on it now, like because I have two little girls and I'm like, you know, that was really cool that I got to experience that. When you grow up in it, you don't think it's that big of a deal. But in hindsight, I'm like, that was really cool.

Jane Ballard (01:41.72)
Oh wow.

Jane Ballard (01:55.482)
Absolutely.

Jane Ballard (02:02.507)
Yes.

Anne Nicely (02:04.258)
But yeah, I feel like an only child. I technically have a half brother and a half sister. We had the same father, but we just, we didn't grow up together. So I never had like, you know, that close connection with a sibling. So I felt alone, I think, quite a bit as a little girl, but like I just, I didn't have verbiage.

you know, to explain any of these like big feelings that like now as an adult. I'm like, oh wow, there's words for this. There's language for like how you feel about things. So it's just been a big, a big learning process and like growing and so yeah, so that's, that's just kind of like how I grew up, where I grew up.

Jane Ballard (02:35.102)
Mm-hmm.

Amanda (02:42.497)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (02:42.763)
Yeah. Yes.

Jane Ballard (02:47.243)
Right.

Jane Ballard (03:04.882)
Did you, like in your school environment, did you have playmates and friends that you grew up going to school with or was it, was it pretty small?

Anne Nicely (03:06.821)
Thank you.

Anne Nicely (03:12.646)
Yeah, no, I definitely did and I had a wonderful, best, like truly best friend, still my best friend today. So I feel like she's a sister, you know, like we had her mom also had issues with addiction. My dad struggled with addiction his entire life until he went to prison. And we'll I'm sure talk a lot more about all that.

you know, she was like such a comfort. And I think now also like I look back on it and I'm like, I'm so grateful she and I had each other because we really could like relate to one another. So, but yeah, I mean, I had good friends and honestly for it to be as a small town and everyone know everything, it was good. Like that part was good.

Jane Ballard (03:58.978)
Absolutely.

Jane Ballard (04:11.842)
Yeah.

Anne Nicely (04:12.047)
I think I just internalized a lot.

Jane Ballard (04:15.338)
Yes. Well, oh, go ahead, Amanda. Sorry.

Amanda (04:15.345)
How did you, do you remember how you felt in elementary school? For me personally, I remember feeling a lot of anxiety as a kid. And just, I always felt different. How did you feel in elementary school?

Anne Nicely (04:23.505)
Mm.

Anne Nicely (04:26.88)
Thanks.

Anne Nicely (04:32.466)
Yes, so I felt very anxious all the time. I always, always thought my mom was going to die, which is such a dramatic, like I feel so sorry for that little girl that I was, but, and I can't even tell you like what it was.

I've done a lot of therapy myself and I've really tried to think, okay, well, what was it that made me almost have this panic that I was going to be left? But I just always was afraid that my mom was going to die. And I would have panic attacks as a little girl. I mean, I can remember breathing in paper bags because back then that's what they told you to do. But you know, I...

Jane Ballard (05:25.486)
Yeah.

Anne Nicely (05:28.954)
Um, I didn't, we didn't do anything though to really help it. I mean, we would try to talk like, oh, it'll be okay. But like, I never felt calm unless I was like with my mom or my grandmother. They were like my safe place. My dad was an addict. Um, and.

was just chaotic, you know. It was just really chaotic.

Jane Ballard (05:59.882)
Yeah. I wonder if it was that fear of, you know, if your mom is your safe space, it's almost like your survival is connected to her being around. And the thought of losing her was probably unimaginable.

Anne Nicely (06:07.938)
Yeah.

Anne Nicely (06:12.407)
Yeah.

Yeah, it was. I would have like, if my mom told me, I'll be there to pick you up at school at 3 0 5 and it was 3 0 5 and she was not there, I would just start bawling crying. I mean, instantly. It was awful. I didn't like ever want to leave her. I don't know. It was like, I always wanted to protect her and make sure she was okay.

Which now that I've done a lot of therapy myself, I realized like I was, I tried to just make sure she was okay all the time. You know, I was like a little adult all the time. And it's, you know, it's not her fault. It's no one's fault, but it's just when you're a child, you can pick up on addiction. And it's a big why I decided like, you know what, alcohol is just not serving me and I don't ever want my children.

Amanda (06:42.229)
Thank you.

Jane Ballard (06:52.153)
Yeah.

Anne Nicely (07:10.562)
to ever feel the way I felt as a little girl.

Jane Ballard (07:16.238)
Yeah, it kind of makes me think of attachment styles and there's kind of three main attachment styles. There's anxious attachment, avoidant attachment and secure attachment. And children typically develop an attachment style in early childhood, depending on the situation with caregivers. And when a parent is

Anne Nicely (07:19.747)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (07:40.722)
regularly using a substance, it's hard to have a secure attachment because there's inconsistency and unpredictability and that can lead to a lot of anxiety and just.

Anne Nicely (07:44.844)
me.

Anne Nicely (07:52.181)
was definitely all those things. Yeah.

Jane Ballard (07:55.498)
Yeah.

Amanda (07:56.911)
And I feel like you, your anxiety with your mom is probably partially like you were picking up on everything that she was having to deal with, with your dad, you know, and, and maybe that was your way of kind of protecting her and protecting the relationship as much as you could.

Anne Nicely (08:16.574)
Yeah, I think you're right. I think so. I think I've felt this pressure. And like I said, I don't think she meant to do it. You know, it's not her fault, but I just, I cared and loved her so much. I just, I wanted her to be happy. And so it was like, I was just determined to never make anyone, I never wanted her to be unhappy on my behalf. So I would just try.

Amanda (08:20.849)
Thank you.

Anne Nicely (08:45.578)
not be perfect, but I never wanted her to know I was sad about my dad's addiction, or I never allowed anyone to see how I really felt. But to be honest and be fair, like, I didn't even understand how I felt until I started doing therapy myself four years ago. I just, I don't know, Jane, you probably know all these terms better than me, but I didn't, I knew something wasn't right.

And I knew I had a lot of trauma, but I did not know how to verbally express any of it. And it would just make me feel crazy. Like, extreme overwhelm and um, yeah, it was not fun.

Jane Ballard (09:15.55)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (09:22.159)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (09:26.679)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (09:33.106)
No. Well, can you share with us a little bit about what that journey of healing has looked like for you?

Anne Nicely (09:36.75)
Thank you.

Anne Nicely (09:41.934)
Yes, so a big part of the healing journey for me, I guess, we can start back to... I'm just gonna start back when I really started using alcohol heavily because it's just a big part of my story and I think it'll...

Jane Ballard (09:58.697)
Mm-hmm.

Anne Nicely (10:09.822)
I think it'll help. I hope it will help someone maybe listening. But like, I, um, you know, my dad was just in addiction, um, nonstop until I was 15. And the only reason he stopped using was because he was arrested and had to go to prison. Um, so I was 15, started dabbling in alcohol, but it, it wasn't much. It was more just, this is kind of what...

is kind of what you do in a small town. You go to someone's house and sneak the vodka and take some shots and you know move along move along with your day. Yeah um but then when I went to college so and I feel like I don't know if you guys feel this way too but I feel like college I hear this so much like

Jane Ballard (10:45.971)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Kind of what, what teenagers do.

Amanda (10:53.511)
Yeah.

Anne Nicely (11:05.294)
College is just such a time, I think, when you do have your independence and you don't have your structures that maybe you were used to, and it's like a free for all, and you're just around all kinds of people all the time. And I had definitely had social anxiety, but I didn't know how to say I had social anxiety. So I drank. And I just, yeah.

Jane Ballard (11:27.734)
Yeah, the quickest way to calm that social anxiety.

Anne Nicely (11:31.506)
Yeah, and so I just, you know, and everyone around you does it and I just sort of always in the back of my head It felt like a tug of war. It was like, oh, why are you doing this? Like you swore you would never be like your dad But then on the other side it was like well, this is just what everyone does and you're fine. You're only 18 it's not that big of a deal. Stop making it so dramatic Yeah

Jane Ballard (11:57.802)
Yeah. So you kind of had these different voices in your mind. Like you've got like the worried voice and then the false comfort and just kind of going back and forth.

Amanda (11:57.956)
Yeah.

Anne Nicely (12:05.094)
Oh yeah, I mean it has always been an internal struggle within me. I mean even when I like loved it, right? I just always, the next day I would wake up and be like, ugh, the guilt and shame. It's just awful. Such a hamster will.

Jane Ballard (12:22.13)
Yeah. Well, the guilt and shame and then just the anxiety that's there anyway, you know, just our brains just are depleted of those neurotransmitters that help us feel good. And so it's hard to process all those emotions in that state.

Anne Nicely (12:30.347)
awful.

Anne Nicely (12:37.791)
Yeah.

Anne Nicely (12:41.546)
Absolutely, and that's just that's a whole other thing but like I didn't even realize any of this until like a year ago Like all the science behind alcohol and what it does to the brain and dopamine and all that I was just like my mind was literally blown But then I Don't know I think Maybe it's like I think like you're just forced to look at your life a little bit when you're on your own

Jane Ballard (12:47.916)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (12:53.13)
Yes. Well, same.

Anne Nicely (13:11.554)
in college and like I felt like everyone around me just was so put together and I did not feel that way at all and it I didn't have like shame like you might think around like knowing my dad was in prison it was it's such a weird dynamic like there was a part of me that felt like oh it's no big deal it's just part of my story but then of course there's the part that's like I want it.

a normal family. I didn't enjoy like sharing like, oh yeah, well actually my dad's in prison so I won't be here this weekend. So I mean, I think I was trying to numb a lot of the like what did feel like embarrassment. And just kind of great. Yes. Grief.

Jane Ballard (13:43.822)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (14:00.938)
And probably grief too, you know, like that your dad is gone. He's still alive, but you can't have him in your life.

Anne Nicely (14:10.134)
for sure. Oh yeah, definitely grief. But again, I didn't have, I didn't know how to express any of it. Um, so then, um, I started dating someone and I really think that chunk of my life from 18 to 24 was just pretty dark for me. That's when I really started using alcohol to cope.

I was very depressed. I just turned to it to numb any type of emotion that I felt. And it worked. You know, it worked until it didn't work. But the healing part for me, I just wanted to share that just so people kind of know a little bit. Like, it was pretty dark there for a while. And it was...

Amanda (14:57.361)
Thank you.

Anne Nicely (15:09.194)
It was definitely a coping mechanism, but I just didn't know how to say any of that.

Jane Ballard (15:15.23)
And a lot of times I think it has to get hard and painful and difficult before we're motivated to do the hard and painful difficult work that healing requires.

Anne Nicely (15:21.669)
Mm-hmm.

Anne Nicely (15:28.042)
Yeah, because it is hard. You know, it's hard to feel everything and it's hard to change. I've learned through sobriety, being uncomfortable is the only way I'm going to feel comfortable. And that's uncomfortable in itself and change is hard, but it's been, it has truly been such a gift.

Jane Ballard (15:29.771)
Yeah.

Anne Nicely (15:55.938)
and one that I just, I never want to go back. I never want to go back to where I was.

Jane Ballard (16:04.538)
Can I ask a quick question about your dad? So he, so did he go to prison when you were 15? OK. And how long was he away?

Anne Nicely (16:06.07)
Sure. Oh yeah, yeah.

Anne Nicely (16:12.522)
Yes, when I was 15.

Anne Nicely (16:17.682)
Eight and a half years. Yeah, long time. And he, you know, there's so much, like we just talk about childhood trauma now so much more than we used to and he had a horrible childhood, you know, and I'm not like, I never agreed with how he went about dealing with things, but I can understand now.

Jane Ballard (16:19.226)
Okay.

Anne Nicely (16:45.582)
He went through such a hard childhood. They were really poor and his mother died when he was very, very young and his dad was an addict. A lot of physical, emotional abuse. And he just got in with people who said, hey, you can make some money. And he did. And, you know, I think then it turned into an addiction though. He was addicted to cocaine and alcohol.

that was his drugs of choice. And yeah, so he really struggled.

Jane Ballard (17:17.69)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (17:22.89)
Yeah, it sounds like you have, you have a lot of compassion for him. Like he, he went through a lot of his own trauma and was probably just doing the best he could with the resources that he had at hand.

Anne Nicely (17:36.594)
Yeah, yeah, I have forgiven him, you know, and we had a really great chat. He's since passed. I don't know if you knew that or not. He passed away in 2014. But he and I definitely like made amends and like I loved him very much and he's a big reason. You know, I want to use his pain.

Jane Ballard (17:44.506)
Okay.

Jane Ballard (17:49.53)
Okay.

Anne Nicely (18:06.658)
and the pain that addiction caused him and our family and my own story and I really do feel like there's purpose in it and I want to kind of shine the light on that part like I know things can look really dark but there really is hope and you know I've got to witness that and so that's

That is like the really cool part of it. It was really, really bad, and then he really did change. So, it's cool.

Jane Ballard (18:41.363)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (18:44.99)
Yes. I mean, that's so healing that you were able to see him heal and change and transform his life.

Amanda (18:45.265)
That is really cool.

Anne Nicely (18:48.99)
Yeah. Well, he got saved in prison and, you know, that's just a big part of my story also is like my faith and, you know, watching him transform truly from the inside out, like a completely different person was like, it could only be God.

Jane Ballard (19:13.398)
Yeah. Yeah, it's.

Amanda (19:15.389)
really cool. So when you were in when you were a teenager and he went to jail originally and you I remember you saying at some point like there were some weekends that you weren't at home did you go visit your dad or no?

Anne Nicely (19:23.298)
Mm-hmm.

Anne Nicely (19:27.616)
Mm-hmm.

Anne Nicely (19:31.142)
Yes, so my mom stayed with my father. She was just super loyal, truly like, I like to think like I got that from her. Like I feel like I'm a really loyal person through and through and I mean I think that my mom really just showed me like you stick through things with people and she just

She didn't agree with him, but she loved him and she was going to see him through to the end and she did. So we always went and saw him. When he was in Kentucky, we would go see him once every weekend. But then he got transferred to Greensville, Illinois, the last five years of his sentencing. So we would go once a month just because it was such a drive. But yeah.

Jane Ballard (20:25.402)
I bet that was devastating for him.

Anne Nicely (20:27.942)
Yeah, it was. I mean, and I love like, prison ministry, you know, it's like it's got a soft spot in my heart, it always will. And so I think for him, you know, just knowing his story and meeting inmates in prison, they just made mistakes like all of us. And yeah, like, I think him having to have his family removed.

Jane Ballard (20:52.706)
Yes.

Anne Nicely (20:57.93)
so dramatically was really hard. But the times we all did get to spend together, it was really nice. And it's just one of those things again, that I never wanna forget it. I think it's made me have a lot of compassion and empathy for people. And I don't think I would have been that way had I not walked that path with him.

Jane Ballard (21:29.35)
Mm-hmm. And just had the experience of interacting with other inmates and realizing, oh, these are just also humans and they have a lot of beautiful, wonderful qualities and they made some mistakes and nobody wants to be remembered by their worst mistake.

Amanda (21:29.585)
Absolutely.

Anne Nicely (21:33.323)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yes.

Anne Nicely (21:44.69)
Yeah. Right. Yeah. No. A lot of, I mean, right, of course. I mean, I don't know everyone's story in prison, but the men and women that I did get to meet, they all either probably had a lot of childhood trauma or an addiction along the way. So yeah, just a lot of compassion for them.

Jane Ballard (22:10.062)
for sure.

Amanda (22:11.893)
Yeah, it sounds like, I mean, I know that you have been through a lot in your life, but you've also learned some really valuable lessons, like the loyalty from your mom, which a lot of people don't get that opportunity to watch a parent, you know, like really support another parent in the way that your mom did. That's incredible.

Anne Nicely (22:28.799)
Yeah.

Anne Nicely (22:32.842)
I know, it really, she really, really did just love my dad. Like she just loved him. She didn't love what he did. But she loved him and you know, I think it was just in a time also, like she wanted me to have a mother and a father, even if that meant, like, cause he wasn't, I don't want to paint this like, oh, he was a great dad. Cause he wasn't in the beginning, you know?

Amanda (22:39.513)
Mm-hmm.

Anne Nicely (23:01.134)
I mean, my mom and grandparents definitely raised me. But there's a redemption story there. So it's cool that I got to see it though. Yeah.

Amanda (23:12.545)
Yeah, absolutely. So tell us a little bit more about the redemption story.

Anne Nicely (23:20.19)
His or mine or both? Um, yeah. Okay. Well, I mean, for him, he, you know, like, I guess I would consider him, you know, like the traditional, like what you would imagine an addict, you know, like, just totally strung out.

Amanda (23:22.716)
Both.

Jane Ballard (23:23.37)
Whichever, yeah, whichever you feel led to share.

Anne Nicely (23:46.898)
lived in like his dad's house. I wouldn't see him for weeks at a time. I mean, just a mess, you know? And that, to me, I just, I think that's probably what like society would view as like a alcoholic, you know, like someone who truly struggles. And so when, yes, yeah, yes.

Jane Ballard (24:08.638)
stereotypical alcoholic or addict. Yeah.

Anne Nicely (24:14.238)
And that was not my story at all from my own journey. But for him, when he got arrested, his, I mean, you know, he was angry, he was resistant, he was detoxing, you know, he had a lot of like the DTs just, it was a much more aggressive, I guess, ending for him.

Jane Ballard (24:34.484)
Mm-hmm.

Anne Nicely (24:42.51)
to remove the drugs and alcohol because it was so abrupt. So the first year of him being in prison was pretty, I think, just like a roller coaster ride. It's like, I'm sure a lot of grief, I'm sure a lot of dealing with guilt and shame because you're just flooded with the reality of all these choices you have done for years, are it's over and it's landed you in prison.

So it's just a hard pill to swallow. But one big thing that happened, I don't know, I guess like probably six months into him being in prison was we went to visit him, my mom and I, and he came out like...

Jane Ballard (25:14.234)
Yeah.

Anne Nicely (25:37.414)
the guard allowed him to come behind the glass and like, I'm holding the phone and he's holding the phone, like in these movies, you know? And he just, I will just never forget this. It's like etched in my brain, what he said to me. And I was 15, so it's like, I just look back on this and I'm like, wow, that was a lot to process as a 15 year old. But he was behind the glass and just.

bawling crying and I had never really seen my dad cry at that point, you know? And to be honest, like he wasn't this warm fuzzy person. It wasn't, um, I cared about him a lot but I just was so angry at him. But he was just bawling crying and he said to me, I feel like I've been stripped naked wrapped around with bob wire and everyone is just staring at me.

in like a town square. And he just like looked at me and I know, it's like, I know. And he just asked me to forgive him. He was like, will you please forgive me? And it was just one of those moments where I didn't, there was no hesitation. Like I knew he meant it. I could visibly see how.

Jane Ballard (26:36.474)
Wow.

Anne Nicely (27:01.07)
sorry he was, how much pain he was enduring. And so I just instantly felt compassionate towards him. And it's like my anger just washed away. And that moment for him, which is really neat, allowed him to then begin going to Bible studies inside the prison. Because I think prior to that, of course he had.

guilt and shame with like his choices, but I think he also had the realization of, I've been a really crappy dad and a really crappy like partner. And so I think me forgiving him just allowed him to soften and open up to these women who were coming into the prison and doing prison ministry. So he was going for about

Jane Ballard (27:34.426)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (27:38.708)
Yeah.

Anne Nicely (27:55.442)
I think it ended up being like five months. He was consistently attending these Bible studies and just one of these Bible studies he went to, the lady who was leading it looked at him and said, hey, Bright Eyes, it's so good to see you. I'm so glad you're here. And I don't know what it was about her talking to him like that and calling him Bright Eyes.

but it just softened him and he went back into his cell and he gave his life to Christ. And he said that like the desire for drugs and alcohol in that moment were just eradicated. It was just like he had, I think, allowed what Jesus did on the cross to really like intersect his heart and change his mind. And I...

Jane Ballard (28:29.039)
Wow.

Anne Nicely (28:51.774)
did not know any of this had happened though until fast forward my own journey because he never told me he never wanted me to feel like he was preaching at me because I think in his mind he was probably like I have no business telling her anything about anyone or any you know because he had kind of messed it up. But after like.

when we were discussing earlier, like my years of 18 to 24 were pretty hectic for me. But during that process I was in beauty school and this was when I was really heavily into partying and like just trying to numb and I would buy cute bags. I would buy cute, like you know I was just trying to fill my life with materials.

Jane Ballard (29:48.639)
distract yourself with worldly pleasures or.

Anne Nicely (29:48.698)
and anything. Yes, I was just, yeah, I was just trying to do anything to feel good in the moment, which meant partying a lot. And I just will never forget this girl, I was in beauty school with her and she just said to me one day, she's like, you know you can come to church with me anytime you want. And I remember just being like...

Oh, you're so weird. Like, no way. I am not going to church. Oh, and I left this part out. I didn't grow up in church. So, like we would go sometimes, but not a lot. And yeah, no. And I just thought she was weirdly weird. I was like, that's great, but no thanks. And I've already disqualified myself. Like, I've partied.

Amanda (30:19.159)
Ha ha!

Jane Ballard (30:31.418)
wouldn't a regular part of your week or your life.

Anne Nicely (30:47.162)
my way around. I've made a lot of bad choices that I'm not proud of so I'm disqualified. And um but one night I went out just got super drunk and I fell um at this bar and the only way I know how to explain this is like when I fell I feel like I had this vision of my dad laying drunk on the couch and it scared me um because I feel like it was like

my subconscious almost being like, hey, if you don't get it together, you're going to end up just like how you swore you never wanted to be. And so I texted her and I just said, can we meet at Starbucks tomorrow before school? She said yes and we met and I just, it was like the first time I admitted to anyone, like I think I'm drinking too much. I am not happy.

Jane Ballard (31:24.451)
Yeah.

Anne Nicely (31:47.026)
I'm really sad. Like saying all this out loud, that was a big deal. Cause like I just kept it in and I just didn't know how to talk about any of it. And she just looked up. Yeah, and I just, I don't know. I think I just always pretended like everything was great. Everything's just great. And she just looked at me and she just said,

Jane Ballard (31:59.254)
And it's scary if you've never talked about it before.

Amanda (32:09.233)
Mm-hmm.

Anne Nicely (32:16.238)
partying, I think you've tried like the cute bags, I think you've tried all these things but I don't think you've ever tried Jesus." And I was like, no I haven't but I'm not good. And she's like, well that's the point of the cross. But I really didn't know that and so I hope whoever like hears this on the other side like really does know like you don't have to be perfect because I genuinely thought that. I really thought.

You had to be perfect to be saved. I thought like I had already messed up too much. Like I was just so dirty and disqualified and unworthy of this like grace and love that she was telling me about. And little did I know though that my dad had been praying for me for years to have my own encounter with Jesus. And it all began with a woman saying bright eyes to him and being kind to him.

And, you know, it's just, I think that's why our stories are so powerful. Because if it wasn't for me forgiving my dad and then him receiving my forgiveness and then taking the step to go into these Bible studies and hear the truth, you know, what Jesus really can do for you, like our identity is not in our past. It's not in the things we've done.

Jane Ballard (33:22.475)
Mm-hmm.

Anne Nicely (33:44.974)
Condemnation is of the enemy, not conviction. So there's very different things. And I just think there's so much power in sharing that because if you were like me, I really felt dirty and like I couldn't receive the love of Christ.

Jane Ballard (34:05.602)
like a sense of unworthiness. And it sounds like in a way your dad, you were saying you think he probably felt that way too. And it's like when somebody called him bright eyes, it's like they could see that version of him, like the childlike version of him that was beneath all of the mistakes he had made and the guilt and the shame. And it sounds like your friend was like, look, you don't...

Anne Nicely (34:08.494)
Yeah.

Anne Nicely (34:24.927)
Yeah.

Anne Nicely (34:29.654)
Yeah, I think...

Jane Ballard (34:32.786)
You don't need to be perfect to qualify. You wouldn't need Christ if you were perfect.

Anne Nicely (34:39.25)
Yeah, no, but like that was such a big realization for me because prior to that, I just truly didn't know. So that was like the beginning of the healing journey. I definitely did not immediately get saved and then it was just all great. It's been such a process. And one though that.

You know, like I said though, for whatever reason, it's just been my journey to it. And now I just wanna go back in the pit and help women get out of it. Ha ha.

Jane Ballard (35:14.882)
Yes. And usually it is a process of ups and downs and seeds being planted here and there, and not this drastic thing that happens overnight.

Amanda (35:16.421)
That's amazing.

Anne Nicely (35:22.379)
Yeah.

Anne Nicely (35:26.29)
Right, yeah, no, I mean, because when I, because I've been sober now a year and, what is it Amanda? A year and four months? Because we're a day apart. Yeah.

Jane Ballard (35:37.562)
Have fun!

Amanda (35:40.077)
Yeah, and I think the beauty in both of those stories with you and your dad is like, it was just a very kind person that led you guys on this beautiful path that you're on now.

Anne Nicely (35:52.382)
Yeah, I agree. Yeah, it was just a-

Amanda (35:53.601)
and now you're going back in and doing the same thing. You're being that kind spirit and that kind person to help other people, women or men, get on the same path that you're on now.

Anne Nicely (35:59.982)
Mm-hmm.

Anne Nicely (36:05.67)
Yes, I really do want, yeah that's my hope and I really do pray that a lot. I just hope that I can at least do a seed, just a mustard seed. And if we get to see the fruit from it then what a gift. But if not, there's just so much hope. Because people really do change. I think we see all the bad all the time, but there really is so much redemption.

Amanda (36:16.846)
Mm-hmm.

Anne Nicely (36:36.256)
and change is so possible.

Jane Ballard (36:39.03)
Absolutely.

Amanda (36:39.117)
Will you, I think a lot of people will benefit from the language that you mentioned. All of the language that you learned in therapy, I think that is such a powerful point, putting words to the feelings and emotions. Can you tell us a little bit more about that?

Anne Nicely (36:52.708)
Yeah.

Anne Nicely (36:58.354)
Yeah, like, I think one thing that my therapist has really helped me learn is like we can't heal from what we cannot name. And that, I didn't even know how to name what I felt. So doing that has been such a healing journey for myself. I think

I think I just felt a lot of unworthiness, again, a lot of guilt and shame, especially when it came to drinking. I definitely had that internal, like, just the war within, I felt like, where...

Anne Nicely (37:49.242)
I never wanted my children to see me drunk or to see me hungover because it would give me such bad anxiety and it would almost send me back into being little girl Anne, looking through the eyes of my children. And so that's been really helpful to realize a lot of this is childhood trauma and I didn't know that.

Jane Ballard (38:15.514)
Yeah.

Anne Nicely (38:20.039)
And like when I say it all out loud, it's like, oh, well, of course it was. But, but I really, I just, I didn't have any tools. I just didn't have any tools at all. I had no awareness. I just was going on. Like I didn't want to feel things. So I would drink to not feel things. And then I would do the hamster wheel of guilt and shame.

Amanda (38:24.281)
Yeah.

Anne Nicely (38:44.91)
And you guys know, it's just exhausting. Did that answer your question? I don't know if that answered that. Okay.

Jane Ballard (38:48.574)
Yes, takes a lot of work.

Amanda (38:52.481)
Yeah, no, you did, you did. I think that itself is a really powerful tool for people to explore is just being able to name how you're feeling and the vocabulary around it. There's a book by Brene Brown. I can't remember what it's called right now. Can you, do you know what? Yeah, and it just identifies, gives definitions of all these feelings and emotions. And I-

Jane Ballard (39:12.034)
Outlasts of the heart.

Anne Nicely (39:20.811)
Really?

Amanda (39:21.369)
think for me that was just really powerful to like know the difference between all of these things and just be able to name all of this different stuff.

Jane Ballard (39:32.426)
Yeah, she talks about how most people can name three emotions, happy, sad, mad. And in her book, she identifies like, she defines like 80 something emotions. And it, it's just fascinating.

Anne Nicely (39:33.185)
Yeah.

Anne Nicely (39:38.218)
Oh, yeah.

Anne Nicely (39:46.398)
No, that is. Well, and I'll say, like, I think I'm still learning, you know? I definitely don't know, do any of us arrive? Like, I don't know, but I still struggle with identifying how I feel sometimes, but I'm a lot better than I used to be.

Amanda (39:46.981)
Mm-hmm.

Amanda (39:50.955)
Oh yeah.

Jane Ballard (39:55.561)
No.

Jane Ballard (40:07.686)
Yeah. And we have to get in the habit of remembering to stop and check in and be like, Oh, I'm feeling really frustrated right now. That's, that's what this is. And just slowing down and acknowledging that can be helpful.

Amanda (40:07.914)
Yeah.

Anne Nicely (40:17.055)
Yeah.

Anne Nicely (40:21.043)
Yeah.

Amanda (40:21.505)
Yeah. And when we're in this place of trying to help people, I think it's really powerful for those people that we're trying to help when we acknowledge that we're like, we haven't arrived and we're still on this journey and we plan to continue on this journey. And we're just like striving to be like 1% better every day. Because if we have arrived, it's like, it's hard for people to relate to us. You know?

Anne Nicely (40:48.838)
Yes. Oh, I love that you said that because it makes me think about, um, I was talking to a girl the other day about this and it's just, I don't know Miss Perfect and I could never be her. I could never be friends with her because I don't even like, what does that even mean? And yeah, well, and just like, um.

Amanda (41:04.017)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jane Ballard (41:06.658)
Sounds really boring.

Anne Nicely (41:12.082)
I think that's why I'm being vulnerable though and sharing our stories. At least for me, I know it is one of the biggest tools that has truly helped my life. I think that's why I am so passionate too about sharing my story. Because if it wasn't for podcasts and hearing these women share their stories, I don't know that I wouldn't not still be drinking. It gave me so much hope to hear other people.

share their stories. And I am just forever grateful for that. And like, you know, the girl who led me to Christ, it's like, had she not just shared with me, you know, I don't know if I'd be saved, you know, I'd like to think I would, but you know, I don't know. So it's like there's just so much power in sharing our stories. I just so feel that like in my bones.

Jane Ballard (41:42.874)
Absolutely.

Jane Ballard (42:01.454)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (42:10.891)
Yes.

Amanda (42:11.921)
Absolutely. It's really easy for us to like look at another woman and think like she is a little misperfect or whatever and feel like that person feels that way also. And then you have one conversation and you're like, oh wow, she's just human, just like me. Like we're all just but it takes being vulnerable for anybody to ever realize that otherwise we do walk around and sometimes make a judgment that

Anne Nicely (42:19.148)
Yeah.

Anne Nicely (42:32.36)
Yeah.

Amanda (42:40.077)
someone is something different than what they might actually be.

Jane Ballard (42:45.902)
Mm-hmm.

Anne Nicely (42:46.527)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (42:48.986)
Can you share with us a little bit about what led you to give up alcohol? You know, you said it had been a little over 500 days. Is that right?

Anne Nicely (42:59.098)
Yeah, I think it's 502 today. Um, I know, thanks, I know. I'm just so grateful. Um, but yes, I will share that. I think that, like I said, I have, even when I looked like I was having fun drinking, um, and that, nothing crazy happened. That's the thing. You know, like I, you hear my dad's story and his addiction story and it's just like,

Jane Ballard (43:02.338)
That's awesome.

Anne Nicely (43:29.498)
So intense. But then mine, thank goodness, I never, it was never that bad. I had spent I think like the last eight years after my girls were born just really struggling with drinking and

Jane Ballard (43:30.998)
Yes.

Anne Nicely (43:54.302)
I was like a weekend drinker. It's like I would live for the weekend. I was not a everyday drinker. I was not a drink during the day kind of person. It was just, I would overindulge on the weekends. And I just like found myself like living for the weekend. And I don't know, it's like I came to this awareness, like there just has to be more than this.

Anne Nicely (44:23.79)
So when I turned 35, we went to dinner with one of my really good friends and her husband. And I had a little bit too much to drink, nothing crazy, but woke up the next day on the couch. And I just remember thinking like, I don't, and I really have thought about this. I'm like, what made me quit like that day?

I don't know. I think it's just like a real god thing because I just felt like deep within like there just had to be more than these stupid hangovers and this quick flash of dopamine and for what? Like for 20 minutes of the dopamine effect. And then it, I don't know, I just, I told my husband that morning I was like, you know, I think I'm done drinking. And he was like forever?

Jane Ballard (45:23.708)
I'm sorry.

Anne Nicely (45:24.478)
And I was like, yeah, I think so. And he was just sort of like, oh, okay. Like I think he thought I was just like probably hung over and didn't feel good. And he's probably like, oh, poor Ann. She's just having one of her anxiety moments. Yeah, like the anxiety was kicking in. But I knew I meant it. Like.

Jane Ballard (45:40.616)
She'll change her mind.

Anne Nicely (45:51.486)
I knew deep down, I just felt like it was the knocking on my heart from the Lord who was just like, you've got to lay this down. And I promise if you'll trust me, it's so much better. And I think I was just so sick of the cycle, the hamster will of guilt and shame, just chugging water, to just rehydrate because I was dehydrated.

eat anything I could to not feel queasy and it just I felt so out of alignment with who I knew I could be. And I just started like I would listen to podcasts all day long. That's why podcasts I love them. Like I just I love them so much.

Jane Ballard (46:44.7)
Yes.

Anne Nicely (46:47.094)
They were such a lifeline for me in the beginning, like rewiring my brain, learning about the science about alcohol and what it really does to the brain and the body.

Jane Ballard (46:52.72)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (46:59.472)
Yes, that Huberman Lab episode is... Yeah.

Anne Nicely (47:02.37)
Huberman lab and I love Jill with Soger powered To just like it especially the science That really did help me because I didn't you bought well probably feel the same way. I really Big alcohol is definitely not talking about this

Jane Ballard (47:07.704)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (47:21.6)
No, nobody's talking about the fact that it's a carcinogen and can lead to dementia and yeah.

Anne Nicely (47:27.135)
Yeah.

Anne Nicely (47:30.674)
Right, and I just, I don't know, I just came to the end of myself with it and I just knew there was so much more. And I just, like I said, I never wanted my children to have memories of their mom laying on the couch. That was just a big trigger for me, I guess. I just never wanted them to ever associate me.

with drinking alcohol because I know how it made me feel as a little girl with my dad's addiction. And you know, I didn't do it for them. You know, I know we're not supposed to say like, oh, I did it for someone else, but I did it for myself. But my girls and my husband, like I just knew there was there's so much more beauty behind life than

Jane Ballard (48:25.114)
Great.

Anne Nicely (48:28.535)
the dopamine hit that you get for 20 minutes.

Amanda (48:32.257)
And I would imagine, I was just gonna say like with your spiritual journey, I would imagine that there were some prayers said, about what was going on with alcohol, even if it wasn't super problematic. But if you were having, some anxiety around your drinking, did you pray about it? And maybe that was just an answered prayer.

Jane Ballard (48:32.504)
And maybe you... Oh, go ahead.

Anne Nicely (48:46.89)
Mm-hmm.

Anne Nicely (48:57.034)
Yeah, I definitely would. I would definitely pray about it. I would ask the Lord a lot to just give me the desire to quit drinking, to give me strength.

Anne Nicely (49:12.974)
But I think for me, because I have thought about this too, I think, you know, condemnation is of the enemy. Like he comes to kill, steal, and destroy. And sometimes I would get that twisted and like condemnation and conviction are very different. Like conviction is from the Holy Spirit and it's like, hey, you're better than this. You're my daughter.

I want you clean, I want you happy, there's so much more for you. So I definitely had to kind of rewire my brain a little bit too. Like God's not mad at me, He's not mad at anyone who may be listening, but it is our responsibility. You know, He's not just going to wave a wand and it's all just dandy. So it's our responsibility to

to take the step to get out of the boat. You know what I mean? Like get out of the boat and you might have to walk on the water. You don't know what it's gonna look like. But so I felt convicted for several years, if I'm honest. But I just kept choosing my flesh. I was just like, oh well, I just wanna keep doing what I wanna do. And it's not bad. Like I'm not that bad.

Amanda (50:12.398)
Mm-hmm.

Anne Nicely (50:39.006)
Everyone else does it and you know all the things that we say to ourselves and we romanticize it.

Amanda (50:46.706)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (50:46.848)
And it can feel super scary. It's just like, well, how, what will happen if I quit drinking? How will I manage my social life? Or how will I get through, you know, whatever it is that you feel like alcohol gives you? I think that it feels very scary to think about life without that until people are willing to try it and realize, oh, it's actually phenomenal.

Anne Nicely (50:57.166)
Oh yeah.

Anne Nicely (51:05.322)
It was very scary. Yeah. Oh my gosh, I know. Like my husband, I'm so proud of him. He's actually not drank now for almost eight months. I know, but I think it's because, it's not because of me. You know, he's on his own journey with it, but I do think him seeing me and like how much, like,

Jane Ballard (51:19.1)
That's awesome.

Amanda (51:19.289)
amazing.

Anne Nicely (51:34.07)
happier I was and how much more energy I had in the morning and like just I Think it just inspired him to realize. Okay. Well if she can do this I can do it, too There's been really

Jane Ballard (51:46.18)
Right. He sees that your life is looking pretty good right now and doesn't look like deprivation.

Anne Nicely (51:50.49)
Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, no, I mean, but it was scary. I mean, I can totally relate to those fears. I mean, I think they're very normal. I think we're normal for feeling that way. Because change is hard. I mean, and it was a big change. But gosh, it's a privilege, not a punishment. I feel like I say that a lot, but I really feel that way.

Jane Ballard (52:03.088)
Oh yeah.

Jane Ballard (52:18.92)
Absolutely. Yeah.

Amanda (52:26.593)
I was just saying, I think that it's so powerful when we change our mindset to, you know, this is a gift, like we're not, we weren't bad and we just are punishing ourselves now. It's like, we're able to gift ourselves this wonderful free life instead of being caged into, whether it be addiction or not addiction, however we wanna look at it, because...

Anne Nicely (52:47.083)
Yeah.

Amanda (52:56.385)
Um, I think that those couple of years when you were experiencing, um, conviction, is that what you said? That was probably also like the contemplation of like you thinking about getting, quitting drinking, you know? So

Anne Nicely (53:07.296)
Mm-hmm.

Anne Nicely (53:15.09)
Yes, definitely. Oh yeah, 100%. Yes, I totally agree. But yeah, it was scary to think about giving it up because like I said earlier, I don't really have any sober friends in real life. I have one and she's awesome, but it is scary. But goodness, I would not let that...

Jane Ballard (53:32.22)
Yeah...

Anne Nicely (53:44.69)
just fur me from doing it because I would never want to go back. Also, everybody now, I feel like it's so authentic, like who I talk to. It's just like I was saying, like it's instant connection. It's like you just instantly feel safe with people. And I don't, I didn't feel that way before. I would have to drink to be around people that I really didn't even want to be around.

Amanda (54:04.177)
Mm-hmm.

Anne Nicely (54:12.846)
or be at places I didn't really even want to be at. Like it's crazy when I say it out loud. Like what, what was I doing? But we do it.

Jane Ballard (54:18.618)
Mm.

Jane Ballard (54:21.724)
Yeah, I think a lot of people feel that way. I know I did. If there's an event that you feel like you need to go to, but you don't really want to, it doesn't sound fun or appealing. So, okay, well, I'll just have a few drinks and that'll make it fun. And I've gotten to the point where I've just accepted like if I need alcohol to make it fun, maybe it's just not my kind of thing and it's okay for me to not go.

Amanda (54:23.321)
Mm-hmm.

Anne Nicely (54:27.726)
Yeah.

Anne Nicely (54:33.262)
Yeah.

Amanda (54:37.449)
Yeah

Anne Nicely (54:45.038)
Yes. I think that's something I've learned in sobriety too and like awareness about that. Like I don't even think I was aware prior to even thinking about that though. Like I would just do things out of obligation and now my yeses are just so much more intentional and wholesome and like hanging out with you guys like it's just

Jane Ballard (54:55.513)
No, I was.

Anne Nicely (55:13.422)
I could do this all day long. This makes me feel so much more like my purpose is being met by hope, like helping someone, you know, versus being out at a bar. It just sounds awful.

Jane Ballard (55:25.197)
Yes.

Amanda (55:31.277)
Yeah, yeah, with a with a, I mean, I'd like to just go ahead and name it with as drinking buddy. Like a lot of the times I was hanging out with just women that were drinking buddies. And you know, all of those drinking buddies fell away when I quit drinking. And they were replaced with like real friendships. And like you said, it, it's not easy to be especially. It's especially not easy to be

Jane Ballard (55:32.488)
Hmm.

Amanda (56:00.377)
the sober girl in a world full of people that are drinking. And for people to know about that, you know, it's uncomfortable. But nonetheless, it's a complete power move for sure.

Anne Nicely (56:14.158)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (56:14.352)
And I think it gets easier too. For me, it's gotten so much easier than it was in the beginning.

Amanda (56:17.649)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Anne Nicely (56:17.806)
Me too.

No, me too. I mean, now I tell everyone that I just don't drink anymore. And I just say, my response is always like, it just made me feel terrible. And it's like, no one can argue that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, and I have also found like, I think a lot of people suffer in silence.

Jane Ballard (56:35.792)
Yeah, nobody enjoys a hangover.

Anne Nicely (56:50.286)
And then, you know, I used to not talk about it a lot. I would get like, I would just honestly, I'd pretend like I was drinking, I'd get a mocktail, but no one would know. And then I just, yeah, I think I just got more confident and more secure with like, I think this is a forever change. And like, it's something to be proud of. Like I'm proud of myself for going against the grain. And...

you know, learning to feel things and doing things. Like even if I do have social anxiety, it's like, it's not going to kill me. It's going to be fine. I will, I may not love how it feels, but I will be okay and the world will not end.

Jane Ballard (57:29.752)
Yeah.

Amanda (57:40.17)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (57:40.36)
and just getting curious about it and watching your social anxiety over the course of a social event and noticing, oh, it actually dissipates on its own. If I just give it some time and get warmed up, it's gonna go down without ever taking a drink.

Anne Nicely (57:56.91)
Yes. And I thought no one else had social anxiety. Isn't that funny? Because now, like, doing like all the sober podcasts, it's like, oh my gosh, it's so normal. Everyone has it. But like, no one talks about it. And it's like, you're so normal, girl. Like, you're totally fine. It's okay. Everybody has it.

Jane Ballard (58:09.972)
It's so normal.

Amanda (58:15.841)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (58:17.136)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (58:21.212)
For sure.

Amanda (58:22.205)
One of the things you said a minute ago is that, you know, you were for a little while getting mocked, not telling anybody. And then you got to the point where you just said, I'm not drinking or I don't drink anymore. For me, that was a really powerful statement to go from. We're gonna have to edit that part out. To go from telling people.

Jane Ballard (58:40.977)
Hahaha

Jane Ballard (58:46.728)
It's okay. We can have a little talking in the background.

Amanda (58:47.765)
He's playing video games. How about yelling? To go from telling people, I'm not drinking tonight, to saying I'm not drinking anymore, because tonight's just, it's not really owning the fact that you're not drinking anymore. You know?

Anne Nicely (59:04.846)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jane Ballard (59:06.74)
And I think people come up with an excuse too. Like, well, just have one man. You don't have to have more than one. Or, you know, some people try to talk to you out of it a lot of times.

Anne Nicely (59:17.454)
Yeah, yeah. For the most part, thankfully I've not had a lot of pushback when I've told people. If anything, like I said, it's like you can't really argue with someone when they're like, yeah, it made me feel really bad. It made me have really bad anxiety. I just say that, like, because it's the truth. I'm like, my anxiety would be so bad that I just...

Like this is, I do not want to live like this. This is not joyous whatsoever.

Jane Ballard (59:49.764)
No. Well, what has been super helpful for you in continuing on this journey? If you had to give other people out there some advice about just how to be successful or how to find peace on this path, what's been helpful?

Anne Nicely (01:00:10.094)
Hmm

Um, I mean for me podcast number one, like because I was never a AA kind of gal, I don't consider myself an alcoholic. I've never like labeled myself that. Um, and I, I think AA is great. It's just, I could not relate to that. Um, and so I found my support through podcast, um, Sober Podcast and

truly it is the number one thing that helped me the most because I would listen to them every day. I mean, I still listen to them every day. And I just, like I said, it's the stories. It's like, it gives you so much hope. Just hearing other men and women share, like we're not alone. I think for me,

a big struggle in life has been like I have felt alone a lot. Whether it was just childhood stuff, being like the only one whose father was in prison, like it just big big things that made me feel really alone and it's like you're not alone with how alcohol makes you feel like you're not crazy, you're not bad, alcohol just did its job.

and it's addictive and it just did its job. And so that's number one. And then also I think I joined a Sober Girl group and that was really helpful for me because I joined it in June and I did that on purpose because for me, the summer months for whatever reason, a patio was always, I found myself.

Jane Ballard (01:02:06.205)
Yeah.

Anne Nicely (01:02:07.95)
romanticizing alcohol and just being like, oh, wine on a patio. I just could kind of sense myself romanticizing it. And so I was like, you know, I'm just going to get some extra support. And that was awesome. I mean, another one of those, like, you're not alone. You're talking with women who are in the exact same boat as you. I mean, you're just trying. You're in a boat.

Jane Ballard (01:02:20.548)
sure.

Anne Nicely (01:02:36.046)
you're just trying to better your life and recognize you don't need alcohol anymore. And so just having that extra support was great. And then I guess the third thing, for me, faith's really important to me. So your church or a local Bible study, something like that, because at the end of the day it's community and we all need community.

Jane Ballard (01:03:01.416)
Thank you.

Anne Nicely (01:03:04.526)
We don't need to isolate and that's how shame does is when we share.

Jane Ballard (01:03:04.616)
for sure.

Jane Ballard (01:03:12.408)
Absolutely. And I think something, a common theme through those three things you mentioned is connection, you know, connecting other people's stories through podcasts and connecting through a similar faith background and then connecting in an alcohol-free women's group. It doesn't have to be AA. AA is great for those who...

Anne Nicely (01:03:19.79)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Anne Nicely (01:03:35.854)
Right.

Jane Ballard (01:03:36.548)
relate to that and they're, you know, one of the wonderful things that I'm so grateful for is there are so many other options these days of online women's groups or men's groups or mixed groups and even in-person options are becoming more and more available, so.

Anne Nicely (01:03:43.95)
Yes.

Anne Nicely (01:03:54.51)
Yeah, yeah. No, definitely the connection piece. I mean, and I think that's what I have truly realized with sobriety is like I craved connection so deeply and I never felt connected when I was drinking. It was just all fake. So truly experiencing connection like on a real deep level has been so very healing.

Jane Ballard (01:04:07.493)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (01:04:13.229)
sure.

Anne Nicely (01:04:23.086)
And also, just, it's like you get to pay it forward now. Like, I really do hope that our stories will just help someone on the other side listening because it really is the thing that got me sober, was just hearing other people's stories.

Jane Ballard (01:04:43.148)
Absolutely, and realizing you're not alone.

Anne Nicely (01:04:46.894)
Yeah, truly.

Jane Ballard (01:04:52.06)
Thank you so much for spending your evening with us and sharing your story. It just, it takes a lot of courage and you just share beautifully and we thank you for that.

Anne Nicely (01:05:04.75)
Aww, thank you guys. Anytime. If y'all need another, you know, round two, I'm available. Ha ha!

Jane Ballard (01:05:10.952)
Absolutely, we're definitely gonna need a round two.

Amanda (01:05:13.685)
Yes, we are. That was beautiful. You have a really touching, vulnerable story that, like, I don't know, could bring people to tears and you just share it really beautifully.