When You Can’t Moderate Anymore: A Conversation About Binge Drinking & Becoming Free with Colleen

Jane Ballard (00:03.788)
Hello, hello and welcome back to mindful sobriety the podcast. I am your host Jane and I am actually subbing for Amanda. We normally have been kind of trading off and kind of teaming up occasionally and she is taking the summer off because she's got a lot going on with her career and family and that sort of thing. So y'all have me this summer and

I'm excited today because we have a returning guest, Colleen Clifford, a dear friend of mine. And you know what's funny, Colleen, is that I was looking back and we recorded almost exactly one year ago today. We recorded on June 21st, 2024. So happy podcast anniversary and welcome back. Yes, that's true. That's true. And also,

Colleen Clifford (00:49.353)
my gosh.

And happy summer solstice, woohoo!

Jane Ballard (00:58.442)
It's a thousand days alcohol free for me on the 21st.

Colleen Clifford (01:02.989)
my gosh, congratulations. Wow, that's a lot of days.

Jane Ballard (01:04.524)
Thank you. It's a lot of days and it's funny how like, you know, after the first year I thought I had gotten the growth and learning I was going to get from that, but I feel like the layers of the onion just keep peeling back and I keep discovering new things about myself that I had forgotten and it's been beautiful.

Colleen Clifford (01:27.904)
Amen to that.

Jane Ballard (01:28.642)
Yeah. Well, Colleen, you have a lot of exciting things going on in your career and life. And I would love to hear a little bit about that. You and I, for our listeners who don't know this, we recently went to Bali together. You were on the retreat with me in April. And so, you know, we had known each other for about a year. And yeah, that was the first time we met in person.

and it was great. got to know each other and bond even more. So it's just such a pleasure to get to have you on again.

Colleen Clifford (02:05.367)
Thank you. just love every minute I spend with you, Jane. It's a joy. to piggyback off of that, because your retreat was so amazing and I went without any expectations. And as you, I'm just always surprised with what I learned, what I'm learning about myself. Just as I think I've uncovered everything, something else creeps out. And that happened.

Jane Ballard (02:30.675)
Yes, it just kind of arises and it's like, hello.

Colleen Clifford (02:35.431)
Exactly, exactly. So that was an amazing experience and inspired me to host my own next year. But so I'm looking forward to that. But yeah, that was that was a highlight of my year. Maybe probably maybe one in my life, actually. I've been on a lot of retreats and that was incredible. But yeah, so.

Jane Ballard (02:50.177)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (02:55.891)
my gosh, thank you. And I can't wait to hear as you get the details ironed out for your retreat. You know, I might need to be signing up for that. So keep me posted. Well, tell me a little bit about what you're passionate about these days.

Colleen Clifford (03:06.893)
Okay.

Colleen Clifford (03:17.015)
Well, I've been morphing and changing as I'm discovering this new phase of my life. I'm in my 60s. My career as a commercial fisherwoman is winding down. I've entered the coaching scenario, but because of my fishing, it's part-time. So I'm just kind of playing around. I kind of feel like a artist painting my canvas for the last part of my life.

Jane Ballard (03:42.154)
I love that.

Colleen Clifford (03:43.01)
like this behind me just full of color and vibrancy and just all that. so with that being said, in my life, I've been a binge drinker and I call myself a binge drinking survivor. Now, this is where I'm coming with all this like, hmm, who am I? What am I doing for, you what can I give back to the world with all the stuff I've done if I can give back? And

Jane Ballard (04:03.552)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (04:11.561)
And you can, for sure.

Colleen Clifford (04:11.977)
So I have. Thank you. I hope so. That's my passion and my mission. If I can just encourage one person to consider their binge drinking behavior and educating the public on what binge drinking is, because it can kill. I should be dead six times, at least as I'm writing my book. I'm writing a book right now called Life Beyond Binge Drinking.

Jane Ballard (04:26.017)
Yeah.

Colleen Clifford (04:37.015)
But as I'm looking back at my life and I've had a 40 year career as a drinker, it's been really interesting to think of all the opportunities I had to kill myself. And I laugh at that because I just laugh at, I don't know, it's just.

Jane Ballard (04:49.287)
Yeah.

It's like, do you laugh or cry or? What do you do? Well, maybe it's like the relief that you didn't and you're here and you've learned a new way that's so much better.

Colleen Clifford (04:54.813)
Exactly. Why is she laughing when she says she could have killed herself? It's just...

Colleen Clifford (05:06.541)
Yeah, it's my response, right? If you fall off a horse, I laugh. It's just how I move. And then the other reason is, well, you don't know, so I'll explain it. The other reason is my late husband died by suicide and alcohol-related. The alcohol played a huge part in his death because what I've learned now with drinking, and especially binge drinking,

Jane Ballard (05:08.906)
Yeah.

Colleen Clifford (05:35.998)
it can push you over the edge and especially with mental health. And so I love to believe, and this is my own story, but I'm saying it to myself because I'll never know. But I love to believe that had he not been completely drunk, he may have survived that night and not chosen to kill himself. And the other thing, one thing, another thing I've come to realize is maybe he was blacked out and maybe he didn't even know what he was doing.

Jane Ballard (06:03.209)
You know what's funny is that thought just occurred to me as like he might've even been in a blackout. You know, and for anyone who has experienced a blackout, you know how baffling.

Colleen Clifford (06:08.179)
Exactly.

Jane Ballard (06:16.349)
it can be to wake up and realize that you have been walking and talking and interacting with the world and have zero memory of it. You know, like, I think that people who haven't experienced that are like, that's convenient. You don't remember. But if you have experienced it, it's freaking terrifying.

Colleen Clifford (06:35.627)
Yes, and when you said, that's convenient you don't remember, that memory will never return. It's gone forever. And it could explain why people deny things they've done because they don't remember it. In their mind, they never did it.

Jane Ballard (06:42.803)
No.

Jane Ballard (06:49.429)
They don't remember. Right, and the science behind a blackout is that your short-term memories do not move into long-term memory. They are never there. They enter short-term memory and within a few minutes they are just gone from reality. They never enter long-term. So there's no recovery in those memories. There's no like, you can't be hypnotized or do EMDR or anything like that and get those memories back. They were never in long-term memory.

Colleen Clifford (07:17.453)
And that's the terrifying part and the serious part, one of them of binge drinking. And just for those who wonder what a binge drink is, it's when for a female, the statistics are saying for a female, it's four or more drinks per occasion. And for a male, it's five or more. And now remember, every body is different. And so smaller people,

Jane Ballard (07:41.761)
Yeah, yeah, that's just an average human, you know?

Colleen Clifford (07:44.938)
It is an average. what's a drink? A drink, well, what is a drink for you or I when I was drinking? it filling your glass of vodka, orange juice with a quarter to a half a glass of vodka and the rest orange juice and ice? So I mean, that's exactly.

Jane Ballard (07:59.138)
There's your four drinks right there. If you have four ounces of vodka in there, you know.

Colleen Clifford (08:05.799)
Exactly. it's, I try not to get too caught up in all the statistics and because they do vary and it's like diet, every body is different every circumstance and so.

Jane Ballard (08:16.403)
Right. And I feel like if you, if like for myself, if I get to bog down and go too far down that path, it produces shame and this sense of like, I should know better, you know? And it's like, it's not about knowing better, you know? It's, that's the baffling part.

Colleen Clifford (08:30.527)
Mm-hmm.

Colleen Clifford (08:36.993)
Yeah, one way in a weird way that it can help with the shame is with statistics is to know you're not alone. They don't have, I've been trying to find for my book, the most current statistics on how many people binge drink in the United States and the problem, especially with administration now, they're cutting back on the national, the government programs that do these kinds of things.

Jane Ballard (08:44.074)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (09:03.412)
Yeah.

Colleen Clifford (09:04.365)
But the last statistics I could find is for the mad mothers against drunk driving in 2022, all traffic fatalities of 30 % were drunk drivers of all traffic fatalities. I know, and 37 people die each day. That's one person every 39 minutes. So there are people drinking out there and driving. And I was one of those and that's

Jane Ballard (09:17.537)
That's insane.

Colleen Clifford (09:33.035)
The last time I had a binge incident, I woke up, realized I drove home with one eye shut and that was my turning point. I didn't reach the bottom because I didn't get in an accident or kill anyone or get a ticket. I knew I should have. And I knew as...

Jane Ballard (09:48.01)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (09:54.058)
Yeah, and you probably realized that the only way to make sure you never did that again and didn't get lucky was to never drink again.

Colleen Clifford (10:03.945)
Exactly, Jane. the reason that binge drinking, one of them, there's a lot of reasons, but for those listeners who might be considering their own drinking or, you wow, that was me. I did that once. You know, the thing that kept me in the binge drinking cycle for years was 98 % of the time I could moderate. It was that 2 % that I never knew. Oftentimes I didn't know when it was going to happen.

And then I would think, my gosh, I've got to quit. So then I'd stop for a week or two. And then I think, I'm OK. I'm going to have a drink. And then maybe the next time I would only drink two drinks because I was on hypervigilance of I'm only going to drink a couple drinks and continue that whole cycle until once again at a party. mean, a lot.

Jane Ballard (10:48.693)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (10:53.705)
Yes, with continued success of moderation, your guard gradually goes down and then it happens again. Yeah. Something that I've experienced is, and this happened before I was alcohol-free completely even, but I would have like nightmares that I was in a blackout and like waking up and realizing it. And then I would really wake up and be so relieved. Have you ever experienced that before?

Colleen Clifford (11:00.979)
Exactly.

Colleen Clifford (11:23.329)
No.

Jane Ballard (11:23.787)
Okay, I'm like, I have PTSD from blacking out maybe?

Colleen Clifford (11:29.453)
I don't know I can't answer that but yeah well good thing you weren't in it and you woke up and went sweating.

Jane Ballard (11:32.625)
Yeah, I know.

Jane Ballard (11:38.281)
Yes, yes. And I think it's just like the sheer panic of waking up and not remembering is it's a real thing.

Colleen Clifford (11:46.934)
Especially if you have kids to care for, I don't, but I would imagine if I was a mom with children and just thinking, my gosh, what am I doing? That would even be more impactful to consider change.

Jane Ballard (11:49.312)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (11:58.44)
Yes, yes, absolutely, absolutely. So I want to circle back to something you said when you were talking about your late husband. You used the words died by suicide and.

Colleen Clifford (12:14.092)
Uh-huh.

Jane Ballard (12:15.251)
I think that's an important use of words because some people do not survive depression and some people do not survive addiction and they die by suicide. And when we say they committed suicide, it overlooks the idea that sometimes people just don't survive these horrendous conditions that they have struggled with for years and years and years.

you know, it's not a completely voluntary thing. And I know like to some degree, yes, we can get help and we can keep fighting. But I also think saying somebody died by suicide is a compassionate approach to understanding their humanity.

Colleen Clifford (13:02.637)
That's so beautiful. Thank you for highlighting that. That was so well said. One thing I didn't mention when you asked me why my passion, when he did die, it wasn't, you know, I went through stages of anger and a lot of stages, but then I went through a, course, compassionate, well, not of course, but a compassionate stage. And I thought, okay, I'm going to do something to honor him.

to honor all those who have died by suicide. I didn't know what it was. I thought it was volunteering at the suicide hotline, which by the way is the number 988. You can text or call it. It's 24 seven. Is the national suicide. 988, you can call for help. I believe that program is still operating. It's a government run.

Jane Ballard (13:45.473)
So wait, the number is 988, just those three numbers. Almost like 911, but it's 988. Okay, good to know.

I'll check it and put it in the show notes.

Colleen Clifford (14:02.049)
I hope so. But I think it's morphing into more of my book and just finding any avenue of teaching this message of the dangers of binge drinking. And if I can encourage or motivate change, that will be great. I'll feel like mission completed.

Jane Ballard (14:21.567)
Yeah, absolutely. Can you tell me a little bit about your book?

Colleen Clifford (14:30.061)
Absolutely. It's titled Life Beyond Binge Drinking and it's nearly done. It's not finished yet. But I'm here. Thank you. It's been really, yeah, it's been a dream of mine my entire life, but it's also really been great for my own growth and just sorting through my whole history of drinking and then my late husband's death and.

Jane Ballard (14:37.643)
That's awesome! What an accomplishment!

Colleen Clifford (14:55.903)
And my whole mission is to make it, you know, help it be encouraging, interesting, compelling. But it's really for the reader to reflect on their own. Why do you drink? And that's the basic without judgment, without preachiness. That's the basis.

Jane Ballard (15:12.649)
It's like, just like, let's just get curious or can you get curious with yourself for a moment and say, why, why do you drink? Why are you so attached to it? You know? And I think back when I was attached to it, that was a hard thing to look at. But if we can just allow ourselves just a few minutes to get curious and think, huh, what, what comes up for me when I imagine life without it? And.

Colleen Clifford (15:20.717)
I'm gonna leave.

Exactly.

Jane Ballard (15:40.807)
If it's a feeling of fear, like what's the thought that goes along with that? And can we start getting curious about that thought, whether or not it's accurate or a hundred percent accurate, or is it helpful or is it keeping us trapped and stuck?

Colleen Clifford (15:57.122)
And the beautiful thing with what you just shared, Jane, is I know for myself, I had those same thoughts. And what I'm learning talking to other women, especially who I haven't spoken to many men, but the women that I've spoken to, it's a common fear. It's a common thought. But the beautiful thing is there's hope. You and I have come on the other side of that. And

Jane Ballard (16:24.661)
Yes.

Colleen Clifford (16:26.643)
Asking for help was the hardest first step for me. I'm so independent. I've always done everything on my own. We teach our kids to be independent and

Jane Ballard (16:36.129)
Well, and you are the one who helps and you have a servant heart. That's just, it's one of the beautiful things about you. But I think maybe it doesn't occur to you or it didn't occur to you that you also could receive.

Colleen Clifford (16:54.221)
Absolutely true. Yep. And it was hard. It was so hard at one point. And it wasn't the money because sometimes asking for help means a financial investment in yourself, right? It was pride, ego.

Jane Ballard (16:58.561)
What did that look like for you? How did you ask for help?

Jane Ballard (17:12.371)
Mm-hmm.

Colleen Clifford (17:21.387)
I've never asked for help, even when I may have needed it throughout my life because I was going to do it on my own. And yes, it's helped me have a successful life on many levels, but maybe had I asked for help sooner, things could have been a little simpler. Now that's why my late husband died. He couldn't ask for help. It's so, it's, you know, teaching.

Jane Ballard (17:23.434)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (17:45.995)
Yeah.

Colleen Clifford (17:51.156)
and spreading the message that asking for help is a sign of courage, not weakness, right?

Jane Ballard (17:55.229)
It is such a sign of courage.

And I think that the people who we care about in our lives, who we want to be there for and want to help, it's actually...

It's like a compliment to them if we ask them for help, you know, to be needed and to be trusted is a privilege. And I think we worry, well, I don't want to be a burden or I don't want to stress them out. And that's, that's not what it is. It's, it's a compliment that you trust that person and you'll go to that person to seek wisdom and guidance and support.

Colleen Clifford (18:35.339)
Yes, an interesting thing I want to share with your listeners and you is I was in counseling with my late husband when he died, like up to the minute he died. We were both in marriage counseling. And then I commercially fished. was on the boat and my counselor, he decided to stop. He didn't want to continue. And I asked her if I could while I was fishing. So we made phone calls together.

once, well, you know, every couple of weeks or something. And he died while I was on the boat. I called her. She helped me through that moment. Like it was three 30 in the morning. It was amazing how she was there for me. I haven't talked to her since. I never called her again. And this was 12 years ago. And I've recently realized that isn't that crazy. And I'm thinking I need to reach out to her.

And isn't that just interesting? It's not funny. It's not judgmental. I'm just like, wow, the time in my life.

Jane Ballard (19:39.233)
It's interesting. Well, it's one of those things to get curious about. Like, I wonder what it was. Maybe it was too painful to go back there and hear her voice or... I don't know. What do you think?

Colleen Clifford (19:58.018)
I think yes with what you said, painful, and I was overwhelmed with the circumstances.

Jane Ballard (20:04.993)
my gosh, yeah.

Colleen Clifford (20:07.745)
But it's just an example of.

of how ingrained, I mean, how our society, I don't know, just maybe for me, it's an example of I dropped it. I didn't reach for help at the moment when I needed it most. And that's just interesting. But.

Jane Ballard (20:25.089)
So interesting. like, when you think about reaching out to her now or sometime in the future, what do you think is inspiring that or motivating that?

Colleen Clifford (20:41.697)
Well, I feel like now where I'm at in my point of life of evolution, I feel maybe she wants to know what happened to me because she's a woman of service, right?

Jane Ballard (20:51.819)
sure she does. Like as a therapist myself, I'm like, smell that woman that you are thriving.

Colleen Clifford (21:00.073)
Exactly. And I want to send out an apology. I'm sure she'll say, no, no, know, but.

Jane Ballard (21:05.021)
No, I don't think you owe her an apology because it makes sense. I bet she already gets it, but she'd probably love to know that, she just loved to hear from you and hear how you're doing is my guess.

Colleen Clifford (21:11.597)
Vietnam.

Colleen Clifford (21:19.255)
And it will be full circle for me. Like, I went through all that and, but you know, not to go on about that, but I will reach out to her.

Jane Ballard (21:28.735)
Well, yeah, and I think like you healing and surviving and coming to the place where you are in life now, where life is really good, people need to hear that. That's inspiring, you know, because when we go through a huge trauma in our lives, sometimes it feels like we'll never be okay again.

you know, that life will never be the same. And that part probably is true, that life will never be the same, but maybe it will be better than you can imagine somehow at some point in the future, if you just keep putting one foot in front of the other and moving towards the direction of love and healing and compassion.

Colleen Clifford (22:18.573)
That's my goal.

Jane Ballard (22:22.166)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Colleen Clifford (22:25.847)
So far the universe hasn't let me down, I believe, especially after he died. Things, I don't believe they just happen. Some things were so bizarrely coincidental or it's like, wow, things that show up that just kind of lead you along to support happen. I have so many examples of that, which help.

Jane Ballard (22:47.518)
Yes.

Colleen Clifford (22:55.053)
It helps me believe that there is something out there and everything we do is a reflection of our lives and that everything we do, it's important to have a beautiful intention behind it in life.

Jane Ballard (23:00.83)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (23:13.365)
Yeah, but that we are, it's almost like we are held by this force of love. God, the universe, whatever name resonates with each individual. And we can't fall out of that. We can be asleep to it, but if we choose to turn towards it and be open to it, it will always be there.

And those little coincidences and synchronicities are almost like just like affirmation of like, yep, I'm still here. Keep going.

Colleen Clifford (23:51.211)
and they're needed.

Jane Ballard (23:52.16)
Yeah, they are needed. We humans need something. Yeah.

Colleen Clifford (23:57.262)
Yeah, so thank you. Yeah, I have gratitude, that's for sure.

Jane Ballard (24:05.727)
Yeah. So the book is called Life Beyond Binge Drinking. You talk a little bit about your journey with drinking and it sounds like your late husband and your kind of recovery from grief is a piece of that as well. What does life look like for you now beyond binge drinking? Tell me again, how long have you been alcohol-free? Okay. That's awesome.

Colleen Clifford (24:31.405)
Four years, May 16th, so I just had my anniversary. Thank you. And I like keeping track of my anniversaries. I'm a list maker and yeah. So it's.

Jane Ballard (24:35.425)
Bye!

Yeah.

Jane Ballard (24:44.115)
It feels good to have that like concrete number, you know?

Colleen Clifford (24:49.261)
Yes, and I started writing a letter to myself that I read every year. I write the letter on May 16th and I fold it up and put it in my journal in my altar area. Yeah. And I read it the next year. So that's kind of a fun thing to do if anyone wants to try that. Life for me is at 62. I never expected it could be so full. I'm so excited to get older.

Jane Ballard (24:58.014)
That's awesome.

Jane Ballard (25:04.266)
Yeah.

Colleen Clifford (25:15.509)
and age. I never thought I'd say that in my 50s. was like terrified to age.

Jane Ballard (25:21.425)
But you are youthful and you are beautiful inside and out and I think your spirit shines through and you make me look forward to being 62.

Colleen Clifford (25:34.51)
Good. I can't wait till you are there. Yeah, yeah, it's just exciting. And I'm blessed with beautiful friends and family. I never expected to make new friends, especially female friends at this point in my life. And so that's been refreshingly a nice surprise that just is filling my cup even more. My heart's just

Jane Ballard (25:37.825)
Yeah.

Colleen Clifford (26:03.821)
about to burst. As far as my business, I'm, you know, I'm trying to think of it as I feel very successful, although my client base is small, but I'm not, I'm not holding success as dollar figures. My success is my own journey. And I'm just, I'm trusting the universe has a plan for me. As you said, I'm putting one step in front of the other.

Jane Ballard (26:18.635)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (26:32.225)
Hmm.

Colleen Clifford (26:32.845)
And my goal is to make an impact with whoever it is. And it doesn't have to be financial impact. It's because I'm not taking any money with me when I die. And it's more of a connection impact, a wow. It's kind of selfish in a way. I want people to think, I've had some people say to me that I've met

Jane Ballard (26:46.09)
Yeah.

Colleen Clifford (27:00.801)
that I haven't seen in years and lovingly they'll say, you did this for me in seventh grade and I think I did. And they say, I'll never forget that. I go, well, that's cool. Like, I want more of that. Like, I'll never forget. I know. And so I'm just.

Jane Ballard (27:13.237)
Like, I've forgotten, but I'm glad you haven't.

Colleen Clifford (27:20.211)
Everything I feel in my life is for a reason and I'm just enjoying the journey and the ride and not taking it too serious and laughter is huge and generosity and just gratitude.

Jane Ballard (27:35.275)
Yeah.

Joy, connection and love is what I'm hearing from you.

Colleen Clifford (27:41.454)
Mm-hmm. So I just looking for ways one thing I'm doing differently is volunteering more I I never I didn't really consider about volunteering earlier in life Now that I volunteer that's another rewarding surprise of filling my cup giving back and

Jane Ballard (28:00.298)
Yeah. What type of volunteer work do you enjoy? I know you showed us a picture like almost right after you got home from Bali, you were back volunteering.

Colleen Clifford (28:10.716)
Yeah, yeah, fortunately where I live, there's a hippotherapy, which is therapy related to horses. My history is, horsies are in it. so I go down there and help with the chores for the barn. miss, I don't have horses in my life any longer. So I miss shoveling horseshit and just interacting with them, feeding them, talking to them. There's a beautiful setup down the hill.

Jane Ballard (28:32.897)
Yeah.

Colleen Clifford (28:38.645)
And then there's other chores, there's other volunteer work where we can lead the horse and things like that. So it's just really, it's fun. And the kids that are on the horse for therapy, it's fun to watch their growth and what's going on for them. Yeah, each session. So I just am a silent witness and I love it. Just with the horse, I lead them and the therapist does the work. It's really amazing.

Jane Ballard (28:53.185)
and healing.

Jane Ballard (29:03.187)
Yeah. Somebody told me this the other day and I'm going to get it wrong because I can't remember exactly what it was, but it was something about like horses can like feel the energy in their energy field. Like I'm going to make this up, but like 15 feet out and humans can only feel like three feet out or something. So like they're very attuned and like

Colleen Clifford (29:25.709)
You

Jane Ballard (29:28.765)
empathic and they can feel if you're calm or if you're loving or if you're angry or impatient. What are your thoughts about that?

Colleen Clifford (29:37.166)
100%. Yeah. And in fact, there's some horses, horses want a confident person on their back. so for especially for the therapy, the kids are like moving around, they have muscular issues and some horses don't like that. So part of my job is to make sure the horse is comfortable and staying calm. If in reading their signs, because horses have a lot of signals with their ears and head and just how they're shifting.

Jane Ballard (29:39.05)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (29:49.547)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (29:59.338)
Yeah, their ears, their tails.

Colleen Clifford (30:06.687)
Yeah, so you're absolutely right. It's very, there's so much to learn. I thought I knew a lot, but I don't. I know a lot, but there's so much more to learn. Let me phrase it that way, with horses and their mannerisms. so it's just exciting. It's one of those things that you can continually be learning. If you have a beginner's mindset and you're like, I don't know at all. There's so many different ways to do things in life for everything. interacting with horses is one of them.

Jane Ballard (30:17.088)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (30:28.129)
Jane Ballard (30:33.888)
What?

And it's one of those things that once you have some time alcohol free, you realize you kind of reopen all these interests and start doing things that maybe you hadn't done in a while. Like in Bali, we kept just, it wasn't planned as part of my little workbook, but we just kept coming back to this idea of the inner child because we were all just wanting to be outside and laugh and scream and play in the water and.

you know, be around animals and see the flowers. And I think sobriety is like that and like connecting with horses and learning how to read their language. That sounds like an inner child activity.

Colleen Clifford (31:16.427)
Yes, it is. I was one of those little girls that always wanted a horse and waited till I was 38, but I got my horses. I'm ready to happen.

Jane Ballard (31:23.891)
Yeah, I mean that's a hard that's a hard bet to have. My daughter told me a few years ago she wanted a pet horse. I'm like well it's not quite that simple. You can't just put a horse in the backyard.

Colleen Clifford (31:34.797)
Exactly. They're very good. Good answer, mom.

Jane Ballard (31:38.897)
Yes, we'll have to do some lessons or something instead.

Colleen Clifford (31:45.013)
That's a good place, you know, and she can always get a horse when she's older. It's not something parents have to do for their kids. Lessons are great, though, if you could provide lessons, that'd be cool.

Jane Ballard (31:49.94)
Yeah.

Yeah, true.

Jane Ballard (31:58.89)
Yeah, that is true. So your work as a coach, you said you're kind of winding down with your commercial fishing career. I know last time we talked, you had been out on the boat for like a month or so, and that was a really short stint for you, because in the past you've done what, seven, eight months at a time? Yeah. And so you're wanting to be able to spend some more time connecting with people. What are your kind of

Colleen Clifford (32:16.799)
Mm-hmm, yes.

Jane Ballard (32:28.993)
passionate areas, like favorite types of clients. Like if somebody's struggling with like, like I think with binging, oftentimes there's binge drinking, but there's other areas where binging may also occur. Like it could be with food or spending or even working, know, like really immersing yourself in work and shutting the world out for a period of time. What...

What do you enjoy working on with people?

Colleen Clifford (33:02.379)
Well, everyone's different and has their things going on for them. So I'm actually a health coach and alcohol free coach. So I just love to see where people are at, especially women. And what's their goal to how they envision their life in a healthier way. Like what's hanging them up? It could be binge eating.

binge drinking, and sometimes they don't know. It's just like, So the fun part is the discovery of client-led interactions where, you know, you let your client uncover what it is that's hanging them up, and you let them try to come up with a solution that's gonna work for them. that way, and then holding them accountable.

Jane Ballard (33:48.445)
Absolutely.

Yeah.

Colleen Clifford (33:56.266)
is where the coaching really comes in. mean, part of it's asking the questions that might like you do so well to Jane is asking the questions that create curiosity for who you're working with. And then, you know, we're all smart individuals. all know what we need really. It sometimes gets hidden or forgotten or, yeah, I used to do that. A reminder.

Jane Ballard (34:02.624)
Nothing.

Jane Ballard (34:24.17)
Yeah.

Colleen Clifford (34:24.713)
And, and sometimes it's just one, one meeting together because a lot of us have had plans in the past and it's not like we're starting from a blank slate and it might be, okay. Well, I'm good. I'm, know, I'm going to try this on my own for a month or two and I'll check in and let you know how it's going. Cool.

Jane Ballard (34:43.467)
Yeah, that's true. It can be tailored to the unique needs and wants of the individual.

Colleen Clifford (34:51.181)
And actually that's the ultimate goal is to set people loose on their own. So we're not, they're not reliant on direction, like getting their own self trust, their self tools for themselves that they can carry on through life.

Jane Ballard (34:55.317)
Yeah, yes.

Jane Ballard (35:06.442)
Absolutely.

Colleen Clifford (35:08.479)
and know how to get back on track if they fall off track, which is very human too.

Jane Ballard (35:11.649)
Yeah. It reminds me of that meme. Of course I see all the therapy memes, but it's like, it's like a client and a therapist sitting across from each other. And there's like this huge tangled ball of yarn like floating above the client's head. And then they're like spooning it towards the therapist and the therapist is like neatly arranging it and putting it into different like categories and untangling it. And I think that's kind of what you're describing is like the client.

They know what they wanna work on and they have the answers, but it's all just a big mishmash and overwhelming. And you can kind of help them. You can guide them by asking the right questions. You can guide them through like, okay, it sounds like this, this and this are really a struggle right now. Let's talk about that. And let's talk about some little steps you can take to get some relief.

Colleen Clifford (36:02.742)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (36:04.619)
Yeah.

Well, Colleen, we just have a couple more minutes, but I'm curious if there is someone listening who is struggling with binge behavior of some sort in his or her life right now, you know, that can feel like such a, like a feeling of powerlessness and like.

It creates this sense of self-loathing and shame and I know better, but why am I not doing what I know I should do? And as someone who is on that kind of hamster wheel, is there anything you would say, any words of hope or any little steps they can take in the next few days to get a little bit of relief?

Colleen Clifford (36:55.169)
Mmm, boy. Trying to think of myself the day after my last drink. Feeling all those things you just said.

Jane Ballard (37:06.655)
And probably physical pain too, you know, if it's alcohol or food, it's physically painful.

Colleen Clifford (37:10.955)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, well, there is a cliche, but there is hope.

Maybe if I were to do it over again, or if I could talk to my myself four years ago, the day after my last binge, I would encourage myself to find support. Whatever that looks like for me, Colleen, for you, Jane, for whoever that resonates with you that feels safe and reach out.

Jane Ballard (37:26.047)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (37:48.085)
Yeah.

Colleen Clifford (37:48.556)
You can be a bystander and not participate if, say, for instance, you're in a group thing and maybe you're not comfortable talking, but just getting support and hearing other stories, other people struggle or get, you know, or talk if you don't want to be in a group environment, a one-on-one situation. There's so many coaches out there now. If it's not me or you or whoever, it's just whoever resonates with you.

Jane Ballard (37:53.471)
Yeah.

Colleen Clifford (38:19.563)
because coaches all want to help. Every coach I've ever met, that's our main mission. We're typically people who have had this struggle, come out on the other side and want to give back. We want to yes, and show the world that we've been duped with alcohol. it's so much, life is so much better without it. I can never imagine.

Jane Ballard (38:22.229)
Absolutely.

Jane Ballard (38:32.799)
They want to share what they learned on their journey.

Jane Ballard (38:39.989)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (38:45.139)
It's more fun, it's more free, it's so much less stressful.

Colleen Clifford (38:51.437)
So that would be my first step is encourage whoever is listening to take one small step of looking for help. could be joy.

Jane Ballard (38:59.274)
Yes.

One of the things I did is I creeped on a Facebook group of alcohol-free women and just...

Colleen Clifford (39:09.218)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (39:13.393)
read people's comments and stories and read who had the same amount of days as me, like who else was on day 30 or who else was on day whatever and what were they going through. And I didn't really start creating community for myself until at least six months in when I went on a Bali retreat as a participant, six months into sobriety. so,

It doesn't have to look like the way other people do it. If you need to creep in a group, go for it. If you want to attend a virtual meeting and keep your screen off, you can do that. If you do go to a face-to-face group, there's Recovery Dharma, there's Smart Recovery, there's AA, even Al-Anon for loved ones of people struggling with an addiction.

Colleen Clifford (39:43.424)
Okay.

Jane Ballard (40:01.725)
you can attend those meetings and if someone calls on you, you can simply say, I'm just here to listen. And they know what that means. No one's gonna press you to talk or share. And people there have so much love and compassion for anyone who is new to that setting. so I think that it's like walking into something like that is terrifying, but when you experience the love that you're met with, you will feel awe.

Colleen Clifford (40:20.716)
Hmm.

Jane Ballard (40:32.573)
immediately with your terror. It will be awesome and awful at the same time.

Colleen Clifford (40:36.445)
Yes, and it

And don't you think just having lived it and watching others journeys from that moment and watch them transform into where they're going, that it does get easier for almost everyone? I mean, maybe not for everyone, but for the majority. But it's just getting started, taking that first step.

Jane Ballard (40:55.755)
so much easier.

Jane Ballard (41:01.675)
for most people.

Jane Ballard (41:06.731)
take the first step, one little baby step, and it doesn't have to be perfect, you know, just, it'll be messy and it'll be stressful, but it'll be beautiful and interesting, you know, like, don't you wanna see what happens? Sometimes I think, I just wanna see what happens. If I keep doing this, where am gonna be in five years? I wanna see what that looks like. I never thought five years ago from now, when I was 38,

Colleen Clifford (41:09.453)
Definitely.

Colleen Clifford (41:23.968)
Okay.

Yeah.

Jane Ballard (41:32.469)
I was pregnant with my third child. Like I never thought that this, I didn't see myself here. And this has been a wonderful turn of events for my life. And maybe you feel the same way five years ago.

Colleen Clifford (41:48.141)
Absolutely. Yeah. Five years ago and now.

Jane Ballard (41:52.034)
Oh wait, I wasn't 38. I was 41. Sorry, I'm forgetting how old I was. Look, oh really? Are you lying, Jenny?

my gosh.

Colleen Clifford (42:03.041)
That's beautiful. No, that's beautiful, Jane. Yeah, and there is hope. Just take the step.

Jane Ballard (42:09.077)
Yeah, there's absolutely hope. Like life is beautiful and it just keeps getting more beautiful, you know? And it mean it's perfect because there's some awful days in there too, but you know you'll get through it.

Colleen Clifford (42:18.369)
Mm-hmm. I can attest to that.

Colleen Clifford (42:25.197)
Yeah, all the cliches. It's never too late. There's always hope. Just start now. I don't know what other cliches are, but they're there. They're there. for a reason. Exactly.

Jane Ballard (42:31.785)
Yeah, keep coming back. It works if you work it. Don't get halts. Don't get hungry, angry, lonely, tired.

Colleen Clifford (42:41.441)
There's another platform called Women for Sobriety, which is one that I joined in 2005. So I've been on this journey for a while of considering my drinking. But that's a lovely platform that's free, where you can not be too involved. You can be as involved as you want or as uninvolved as you want if you don't want to try coaching or whatever. I mean, there's so many options out there.

Jane Ballard (42:51.989)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (43:03.861)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (43:09.705)
and that's called Women for Sobriety. Okay, we'll link some of these resources in the show notes. And speaking of, how can people find you and learn more about you and working with you?

Colleen Clifford (43:11.999)
Yes.

Colleen Clifford (43:15.959)
Great.

Colleen Clifford (43:23.521)
Yeah, well I'm rebranding, but at the moment you can just reach out to me at Colleen, which is two L's two E's, C-O-L-L-E-E-N, at purepotential.health. And I also have a website, purepotentialhealth, but I'll be purepotential.health. Yeah, the dot com was gone, take in.

Jane Ballard (43:37.441)
and she'll get health.

Jane Ballard (43:43.753)
Is that dot com?

.health.

Rude. I like that.

Colleen Clifford (43:52.512)
I like the .health so I'm okay with that. it's little confusing for people. like, that .com or no? Yeah. Yeah. And so that's just, you can reach out there or just send me a message. I'm also on Instagram at Pure Potential Health and LinkedIn. Yeah. So.

Jane Ballard (44:12.363)
Well, Colleen, you are such a light and I'm so grateful that you are in my life and that our paths have crossed. And thank you for coming on today and sharing with our listeners.

Colleen Clifford (44:24.877)
Thank you, Jane, for giving me the opportunity. It's always so wonderful to see you.

Jane Ballard (44:28.449)
Thank you.