Grace, Self-Worth & Sobriety: Rewriting the Recovery Narrative with Author Chris Janssen

Jane Ballard (00:01.929)
Hello, hello. Today we are joined by Chris Jansen. She is the author of Grace Yourself, a powerful guide to breaking free from limiting beliefs and embracing a life of fullness and freedom. Chris shares her personal journey with addiction, the role of grace in recovery, and the mindset shifts that lead to lasting change in her book. And today she is gonna share a little bit about that with us.

Personally, we get to chat with her. let's dive right in. Chris, I am so excited you're here. Thank you for coming on the podcast.

Chris Janssen (00:38.598)
Jane, I am so excited to be here. Thank you for having me and thank you for having a podcast. I know it's a lot of work.

Jane Ballard (00:45.753)
Absolutely. It's been such a joy and so much fun to connect with people like you. So speaking of connecting with people, tell our listeners where you are. Where are you in the world?

Chris Janssen (00:57.824)
In the world, I live between Los Angeles and Palm Desert, California. Right now I'm in Palm Desert. So I'm a born and raised California from Northern California. Then I met my husband in LA, moved to LA for college and well, San Diego for college, LA for grad school. And then, yes, that's how we got here now.

Jane Ballard (01:03.697)
Okay, awesome.

Jane Ballard (01:22.367)
You've been in Southern California ever since, it sounds like. Yeah, it is. I love California. It's one of my very favorite places to visit. It's beautiful.

Chris Janssen (01:26.466)
Yes!

Chris Janssen (01:33.133)
Mm.

Jane Ballard (01:34.927)
Well, I would love to talk a little bit about this amazing book of yours that has just come out. The title is Grace Yourself. maybe to start out, just share a little bit with us about what inspired you to write this book.

Chris Janssen (01:40.696)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Janssen (01:54.19)
I was inspired to write it because I was, I got sober from alcohol in 2007. I was 37 years old and I enjoyed 13 and a half years of continuous sobriety. And then in 2020 during the pandemic, we did move, we were still in LA, but we moved part time to Colorado. So new, new state was a brand new empty Nestor.

Jane Ballard (02:24.511)
Wow.

Chris Janssen (02:24.754)
there were a few transitions happening that I didn't process maybe. Well, let's just say it is what it is. I moved and, did not get plugged back into my recovery community the way I had been for so long. And I think leading up to that too, I had taken my program for granted. wasn't really making recovery a

Jane Ballard (02:33.992)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (02:43.997)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Janssen (02:53.794)
first priority, it was maybe a third priority. And I write about all of this in the book. And so I invited alcohol back into my life again, and it did not go well. And so I'm sober now for a second time. So I've had two day ones and this is my second sobriety. And, you know, they say getting sober is a lot harder than staying sober. And that's so true. And it was really hard and

Jane Ballard (02:57.001)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (03:20.979)
Yeah.

Chris Janssen (03:23.834)
I wrote a book about it because as I was fighting and clawing my way back to my second sobriety, just all of this, all of this poured out of me. I have like a completely renewed just immediacy for protecting and being vigilant about my sobriety. And so

since I'm already a coach, I was already a coach, I'd written a first book, Living All In, How to Show Up for the Life You Want, that book has all my favorite coaching tools in it. And I did touch on addictions and patterns and habits in one chapter. So I really took that chapter and made a whole book on it based on what had happened. I say, you know, I have a master's in counseling psychology and I...

I'm a certified coach. I'm not an addiction expert and I'm not a sobriety coach. But I'm an expert at my own story and I am sober and I do have quite a story. And so I'm qualified to write this book and tell my story, which I think is what we need. We need to share stories. We need to know we're not alone. I did not really want to be vulnerable and share my story. I'm happy I did. And I did it in a way that says,

Jane Ballard (04:15.923)
Mm-hmm.

Absolutely.

Jane Ballard (04:31.654)
Yes.

Chris Janssen (04:41.518)
know, perfectionism, rigid thinking, being a high achiever, all these things really played into my addiction. And here's how, and here are the tools that can help you with whatever's keeping you stuck. And it doesn't have to be alcohol. I'm sharing my story with alcohol addiction, so I write a lot about alcohol addiction, but it's really been beneficial for anybody struggling with even controlling thoughts. Maybe they're not even in an act.

Jane Ballard (04:48.979)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (05:09.177)
Yes.

Chris Janssen (05:11.04)
addiction and so it's really written I would say that the audience is not someone addicted to alcohol it's really somebody that's self sabotaging and hard on themselves and they set standards too high and they're confused by that and really the theme of it's self-worth how that really gets all wrapped up in our self-worth and

Jane Ballard (05:20.883)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (05:31.805)
Yes.

Chris Janssen (05:33.164)
what we believe our creator thinks about us, what we believe ourselves. go into, it's an interactive book. have extra, my coaching exercises are in it, how we form those beliefs. So yeah, that's why I wrote the book and who it's for.

Jane Ballard (05:43.207)
I love that.

Jane Ballard (05:51.677)
I love that. And I think that we can all relate to that. Every human encounters struggle and suffering and these behaviors that are self-sabotaging. know, actually I have this women's group that just recently formed and we met last night and one of the women was talking about how, you know, at the beginning of the year she kind of had this phrase for herself, you are enough.

Chris Janssen (06:21.262)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (06:21.265)
And she was like, and I truly believe that yet, you there are these things that I know I need to do to help me feel more spiritually connected and more grounded. And I know I need to do them, yet I don't do them. And that is such a universally human thing that we all struggle with and have for the history of humanity. And it's baffling because it's...

Chris Janssen (06:39.202)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Janssen (06:43.874)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (06:46.087)
It's not logical, you know, we're logical, intelligent people, yet we still do these things that we know we don't want to do, or we don't do the things we know we do want to do.

Chris Janssen (06:54.174)
Right. And I think we do them because we are logical and intelligent. Right. And that is the good news. Whatever's tripping us up, we are smarter than that thing. And I remind people we were all born sober. mean, pain is natural. Causing pain through a substance is not. So we actually have everything we need within us. We were born with it to face natural pain and to face hardship. And we don't have to numb.

Jane Ballard (07:04.031)
Absolutely, absolutely.

Jane Ballard (07:14.559)
It's so true.

Chris Janssen (07:23.95)
but we live in this world that kind of sells us on the fact that we do. We need these remedies. And I went into a section of the book too about that phrase, are enough, especially for women where, you know, it's because of what we're sold, diet products, alcohol, like we should be able to drink alcohol like a dignified woman, right? Like, well, I can't, so where does that leave me? So, you know.

Jane Ballard (07:28.447)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (07:47.432)
Right.

Right, that it's normal to be able to drink it in a certain way and if you can't do that then you're abnormal is the message.

Chris Janssen (07:53.806)
Yes, yes. And so we're striving for this balance or to be enough when really we don't even need to be enough. We just are, we just are. And that's just, and that's just beautiful. And I talk about balance too, know, a balance, trying to strike a perfect balance. It's like a teeter totter.

Jane Ballard (08:06.599)
inherently.

Chris Janssen (08:17.036)
It's another form of perfectionism because the teeter totter, the teeter and the totter have to be perfectly balanced, right? And you're only in charge of one side. So how do you do that? But we are told we need to have a balance. We need to live in moderation. need to, the messages are confusing. So I wade through all of that in the book and really.

Jane Ballard (08:22.931)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (08:36.297)
They're confusing.

Chris Janssen (08:41.09)
You know, I say it, say it again and say it again in the book, you know, just just helping people really know like we're okay. The world is a little cuckoo, but that doesn't mean you are and and it's okay if you got stuck in an addictive snare. It's it's really hard not to right now and it's okay. And it's it's the problem of the thing, not you and

Jane Ballard (08:51.507)
Yeah.

Yes.

Jane Ballard (09:01.616)
Absolutely.

Chris Janssen (09:06.734)
So I hold the reader's hand and walk them through. And my hope and prayer is that by the end, they will just know without a doubt their worth and be able to stand in their power and know where, stand in their power, but also know those areas where we are powerless. Like for instance, I am powerless over alcohol. It's a very powerful substance that has control over me if I take that first sip. So I really only have power over not taking that first sip.

Jane Ballard (09:23.452)
Absolutely.

Jane Ballard (09:29.641)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jane Ballard (09:35.398)
Absolutely.

Chris Janssen (09:36.522)
It's kind of that way in through navigating how to stand in your power and also know when it's okay to quit something.

Jane Ballard (09:44.743)
Absolutely. It's like acceptance versus change. Like you cannot change the way your body responds to alcohol, but you can accept that and allow that to be the reality and then find where you can get your power, which is deciding whether or not to take the first sip.

Chris Janssen (09:48.747)
Yes!

Great. Yes. Yes.

Chris Janssen (10:01.47)
Yes, I love that acceptance versus change. That's beautiful.

Jane Ballard (10:05.395)
Yeah. Well, tell me a little bit about the title, Grace Yourself. How did you come up with that title?

Chris Janssen (10:09.58)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Janssen (10:13.39)
Well, as a rigid thinking, controlling, perfectionistic young woman and child, really, I mean, I was just born like that because I come from a very loving family. They like coincidentally, they don't drink alcohol and there was just cultural and their parents, my grandparents and their parents didn't drink alcohol. So I didn't they weren't drinkers and I didn't grow up. I didn't. So that was confusing for me when I

Jane Ballard (10:21.49)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (10:35.123)
They just weren't drinkers.

Chris Janssen (10:42.894)
started to drink socially because I was in a neighborhood in high school and then college where people drank and they seemed to be pulling it off. And so it was confusing to me why I couldn't do it because I never knew anybody who either identified as an alcoholic or had

a problem with alcohol or had been in a recovery group. I just didn't know it was a journey finding out where to go for help. That story's in the book. But the reason I brought up the title, the title that Graced Yourself is as a young woman and kid that was always living in my head, I was always bracing myself, right? Like I need to try harder. I need to do this and do that. And I was really good at a lot of things. Like I do have a lot of self-discipline and...

Jane Ballard (11:08.585)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (11:24.979)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (11:33.415)
Yes.

Chris Janssen (11:34.228)
willpower. And so that was confusing too. Why can I do all this stuff? And I thought it's because of me, right? Like I thought, well, I'm good at these things, but then why can't I moderate alcohol? And so that was very confusing. So I really villainized myself for that. And when I got in recovery, you know, I didn't look at all the things I was doing well, like a good marriage, a good mom, these other things, I villainized myself for the one thing I couldn't control.

Jane Ballard (11:47.869)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (11:59.545)
Yes.

Chris Janssen (12:03.246)
And when I got in recovery, my sponsor and loving people told me, look, you don't understand grace. Grace is unmerited favor. And I was always a person of faith too. So I didn't get a God or change my God when I got in recovery. I had the same God and my God, the God of my understanding is grace means from God unmerited favor.

Jane Ballard (12:30.569)
Yeah.

Chris Janssen (12:31.126)
The thing is, if you're a controlling person, you think you're in control of what you deserve. And so I thought, I'll tell you what I'm worth. It was like playing God. And so I didn't understand grace. I didn't understand being able to accept something that I didn't earn and that I didn't control getting.

Jane Ballard (12:41.16)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (12:47.529)
Right. Almost like it was unbelievable to you that you were unconditionally loved, even with these perceived flaws.

Chris Janssen (12:55.902)
Yes. Yes. And even though I had parents who unconditionally loved me, like what was that about? You know, I just made this, I just drove myself nuts in my head. And so I went from Brace Yourself to Understanding Grace and then named the book Brace Yourself.

Jane Ballard (13:15.559)
love that. Yeah. And you know, we tend to be able to give grace to others, but we can't extend that same grace to ourselves. So I love grace yourself, you know? And I think ironically, when we develop the ability to be self-compassionate and self-forgiving and even self-accepting, like maybe we don't even need forgiveness. Maybe it's okay to just have flaws.

Chris Janssen (13:27.79)
That's right.

Chris Janssen (13:41.39)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (13:41.617)
it's so much easier to be compassionate and non-critical of other people as well.

Chris Janssen (13:46.31)
exactly. That's exactly right. my when I that is my kind of character defense that I'll slip into is being judgmental or being bothered by other people. That's what I really work on. Like, OK, it's I can't control other people. can control how I can control my reaction and control how what people say lands on me. But when I notice it really peeking its ugly head is.

Jane Ballard (13:59.144)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (14:04.361)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (14:08.019)
Yes.

Chris Janssen (14:15.054)
always when I'm being too judgmental on myself. Because we can't take it, we can only take so much. So then we have to offload it to other people or other events. know, second guessing, why did I do that? Why did I move? Why did I, right? And it's just an overflow because we physically and emotionally can't take any heap anymore on ourselves.

Jane Ballard (14:18.494)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (14:30.611)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (14:37.396)
Yeah, it has to spill over and needs somewhere to go. Yeah. Well, I'm curious if you could share with us a little bit about what was your relationship with alcohol like before you quit the first time, kind of how you knew it was time to make a change.

Chris Janssen (14:39.531)
Hmm, yes.

Chris Janssen (14:55.374)
I was well I shared how I grew up and then I had my first drink at a freshman in high school just a typical high school night right and for me it made me feel amazing like the first sip the second it hit my tongue I remember I don't remember a lot of the situ surroundings I know I was up in the foothills with

Jane Ballard (15:05.725)
Yeah.

Chris Janssen (15:20.524)
with friends and I don't even remember exactly who was there. really remember the feeling. It was a beer, can of beer. It's like, I already just, but it didn't matter what it was. It was just alcohol. It hit my system and I felt like all that overthinking and living in my head just went away. It was magical. I felt like, my gosh, I'm okay. This is a great remedy to my...

Jane Ballard (15:29.328)
Interesting.

Jane Ballard (15:43.39)
Yeah.

Chris Janssen (15:50.544)
living in my head and

Jane Ballard (15:51.901)
Yeah, probably a feeling you had never felt before.

Chris Janssen (15:55.246)
Exactly. Exactly. At least not since I was a very small child. And so, you know, I want to be honest with myself about that. That was a nice benefit, right? That was it had a benefit, but it had more downfalls. mean, I immediately I started heaping on the shaming gills. I felt terrible the next day. It was very, you know,

Jane Ballard (16:02.079)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (16:11.069)
Yeah.

Chris Janssen (16:22.798)
I do adhere to that it's a progressive condition because that's how it's worked on me with age. so I lived for years where nobody thought I had a problem with alcohol because it was in my head. And then later after I had kids, like babies, I got sober when they were still very small, like babies, but when they were tiny, you know, I'd do the dishes, put them to bed and then drink too much wine until I'd...

Jane Ballard (16:27.922)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (16:42.943)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Janssen (16:51.566)
pass out and that's when I knew, oh my gosh, now I need to call somebody or find a group. That's when I found a group. It's miserable. And so I really lived from that age 14, that first drink, to when I got sober at age 37, that whole time, I was scheming how to quit alcohol. Because even though it had some benefits, it had way more drawbacks for me.

Jane Ballard (16:51.613)
to sleep.

Jane Ballard (16:56.583)
Yeah, and just waking up after that must have been painful.

Jane Ballard (17:19.347)
the cost.

Chris Janssen (17:20.908)
the costs were higher and so of continuing to drink. But like I said, I was so confused. I didn't know anybody in recovery. I knew I, and because I do have lot of willpower and discipline, so I could, I moderated it for quite a while, but that doesn't mean I moderated my brain, right? Like even though I was pulling it off on the outside, I was completely.

Jane Ballard (17:42.642)
Yes.

Chris Janssen (17:48.01)
The second I would have a sip, was just that obsession took over and I was completely in my head and I knew I was very aware. I'm not enjoying this activity the way my friends are or the way my husband is. I could tell that my drinking was different. And at first I thought, well, I just need to get better at it. Maybe it's because my parents didn't drink. Maybe all those things were just none of them ended up being true. It was just that I

Jane Ballard (18:00.787)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (18:15.024)
Yeah.

Chris Janssen (18:16.608)
I'm not a good drinker. It's just not, it doesn't work on me.

Jane Ballard (18:20.625)
It doesn't work. And so when you were in your head, when you said like you would take a sip and then you'd be in your head not enjoying it, was it in your head like figuring out how to moderate? Like when do I have another drink? How do I pace myself? Okay.

Chris Janssen (18:26.188)
Yeah.

Chris Janssen (18:31.246)
Yes, exactly all of that measuring tools, baking tools, spreadsheets, only after five o'clock because I, you you can control, you can regulate before the first sip. You can say, I won't have the first sip. All of us can, right? And, but after the, and I say sip because even a sip, not a drink, a sip.

Jane Ballard (18:40.275)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (18:47.996)
Absolutely.

Jane Ballard (18:51.944)
Yes.

Chris Janssen (19:00.51)
after the first sip for me and millions of people like me, the obsession takes over. And that's why so many of us, the only option is abstinence because moderation is a white-knuckling, grueling process of trying to control something that has control over us. Yes, and if you're young and you don't understand this, or even if you're not young, I I say young because

Jane Ballard (19:03.9)
many people.

Jane Ballard (19:14.246)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (19:21.704)
takes so much energy. Yes.

Chris Janssen (19:29.912)
For me, I was young when I didn't understand this, but if anyone's listening and they're in that space, still trying to work on moderating, I would say, you don't have to, you can give it up. It's okay that you cannot moderate alcohol like the next person because it doesn't mean you're weak-willed, it doesn't mean you're a bad person, you're certainly not immoral, it doesn't mean you lack discipline, and it doesn't mean you need to just keep trying harder.

Jane Ballard (19:38.687)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (19:48.243)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (19:54.14)
No.

Chris Janssen (19:59.042)
because that's what I did. I'll just try harder and it'll get worse.

Jane Ballard (19:59.069)
Yes, yes. And the person that you're comparing yourself to who appears to be moderating with ease may not be. They may be in their heads.

Chris Janssen (20:09.358)
They may not be. That's right. We don't know anything that's going on with another person. That's right. That's right.

Jane Ballard (20:14.879)
Absolutely, yes. think that people, once they eventually, if they eventually decide to stop moderating and become abstinent, it's like a huge weight is lifted and it's, there's just freedom and space in your brain because you don't have to think about it anymore.

Chris Janssen (20:26.094)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Janssen (20:32.326)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yes, it's so freeing. And when I got sober at 37, I write about this in the book, I had like a second childhood because I'd lived for so long in my head, even before I was drinking. mean, recovery really showed me how everything, like it got rid of the drinking, but it also showed me how to live and think and enjoy life. And so I started...

Jane Ballard (20:36.905)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (20:57.055)
Yes. Yes.

Chris Janssen (21:01.674)
I did things like maybe a 13 year old would do. Like I read a lot of vampire fiction. I started ice skating again, which is something I did when I was young. I did all these, like a second childhood and I just enjoyed having space in my brain.

Jane Ballard (21:18.533)
Yeah, and I think that's really important actually is we have to think back to the time before we ever had a drink and how much fun we had. We knew how to play and how to be lighthearted and it is important to get back in touch with that playful aspect of of yourself like that's still there.

Chris Janssen (21:26.923)
huh. Yes!

Yes.

Chris Janssen (21:35.681)
It really is.

Yeah, one of the things my I have three kids and two boys and a girl and the boys love riding bikes and my daughter loves she's obsessed with what she's like. Horses that's just always been her sport. She didn't play any other sports in school. She just wanted to do horses. So I started riding horses with her and then I started riding bikes with my boys in early sobriety and I still do it because I think the act of riding a bicycle.

Jane Ballard (21:50.675)
Yeah.

Chris Janssen (22:07.862)
I didn't get that at first. My husband goes, it's so fun because it's like what we did as kids and it's just free. And so now I, love to, I'm not a, not like a cyclist or anything professional like that. I just get on my bike and go and it's, it's childlike and it's fun.

Jane Ballard (22:13.427)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (22:20.007)
Yeah, it's not competitive.

Jane Ballard (22:27.323)
Yeah, I think that's a really good point. Almost of like its body memory and it engages that part of your brain that remembers doing that in childhood. And you probably do have some of that emotional memory of the freedom and you know, the wind in your face and the sun and it's just fun.

Chris Janssen (22:32.141)
Yeah.

Chris Janssen (22:36.93)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Chris Janssen (22:45.442)
Right, yes, so fun.

Jane Ballard (22:47.401)
Yeah. Well, so you talk a little bit about limiting beliefs in your book and as a coach, I'm sure that's probably something that you also work with clients on. Can you talk a little bit about some of the common limiting beliefs that people might have when they're looking at their relationship with alcohol and finding that it might be problematic?

Chris Janssen (22:59.15)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Janssen (23:10.797)
The biggest limiting belief is that they're flawed, not the thing. And that was my belief too. I'm a monster because I can't stop drinking. When I went to my first recovery meeting at 37, this woman said, it's okay, it's not your fault. You have a condition, it's like an allergy and you never have to have another drink again. Stick with us, we'll show you. And I know not everybody hears that. When they enter, hear I don't...

Jane Ballard (23:18.43)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Janssen (23:39.992)
get to have another drink again and that's okay too. We're all coming in where we come in. That's just what I heard because I was exhausted trying to figure this thing out and because I didn't know anyone else like me. But after that, I got to know hundreds of people like me. So that is a great example of a limiting belief because, and so what I teach clients and it's in both of my books too as an exercise is that a belief is really made up of

Jane Ballard (23:44.243)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (23:48.541)
Yes.

Chris Janssen (24:09.368)
Two things, what's true and what's fabricated about something. So like what's true is a fact. And then we take a story, a meaning and attach it to that fact. And that becomes our belief. So that like for me, the fact was I was addicted to alcohol. The story I attached to that fact is I'm a monster because I can't stop drinking. And so my belief was everything that has to do with low self-worth, right?

Jane Ballard (24:17.107)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (24:22.44)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (24:38.077)
Yes.

Chris Janssen (24:39.094)
it's a silly belief because that wasn't true in any other of my life. So when the woman spoke that truth to me, I was really able to see the fact is the same. I'm addicted to alcohol. I attached a different meaning to it, a different story to it, which is I'm deserving of recovery and community and sobriety because I'm addicted to alcohol. So my whole belief changed and nope.

Jane Ballard (24:57.726)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (25:03.423)
And you're not a monster, you have an allergy.

Chris Janssen (25:07.71)
Exactly. And so I walk people through that, whatever these beliefs that aren't serving them are, we can change them because we can't change the facts in our life. We can't change all our circumstances. We always can change the story we attach to the circumstance. So a lot of the work I do is people rewriting the narrative.

Jane Ballard (25:25.139)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (25:30.025)
I love that.

Chris Janssen (25:30.284)
And then conditioning the new narrative. We're not gonna believe it like that right away. It's like a muscle at the gym. We don't go to the gym one time and have great biceps. You have to go over and over and over again, condition, repeat. Yes, I tell people it took a long time to form that old story that you've been telling yourself. And a lot of times it's subconscious. We didn't set out to tell ourself a bad story. And a lot of times it's a lifetime, years of this narrative.

Jane Ballard (25:38.803)
Yeah, consistently.

Jane Ballard (25:51.199)
Thank you.

Chris Janssen (25:58.904)
So we have to be patient. It will take time for the new story to take hold and form. And then I give a lot of tools for how to do that. Just simply how to change the patterns in neuroplasticity in our brain.

Jane Ballard (26:11.997)
Yes, well, and just the fact that neuroplasticity is a thing, you know, I feel like a decade or so ago, people thought that brains, you know, didn't really grow and change that much after a certain age. And now we know that they do, that we have neurogenesis and we have continued new formation of cells and neuro pathways and we can retrain our brain and our thinking patterns. Yeah. Yeah. So

Chris Janssen (26:17.506)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Janssen (26:22.638)
Mm.

Mm-hmm.

He had it.

Chris Janssen (26:36.142)
Isn't that great? Yes. I know. Aww.

Jane Ballard (26:42.031)
Is there like, it might feel overwhelming to some people. Is there like a first step to beginning to believe a new narrative?

Chris Janssen (26:52.778)
The first step, I am big on pen and paper, not computer. Like get a piece of paper and something to write with. Put a line down the middle and on the left, write the old story just as you hear it. Like in the example I used, it'd be, I can't stop drinking alcohol. I'm a monster. I'm weak-willed. I'm undisciplined. And on and on, that's called an old story.

Jane Ballard (26:56.286)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (27:19.665)
Okay.

Chris Janssen (27:20.472)
So that's the first step is to write it down because a lot of times it's subconscious and we don't know that these things are floating, negative language is floating through our head all day long.

Jane Ballard (27:28.495)
Yes.

and then you see it in black and white and you're like, wow, look at how I'm speaking to myself.

Chris Janssen (27:35.56)
Mm-hmm. And that's really what coaching is about. That's why a good coach sees the blind spots. We see the strengths and the weaknesses that the client might not see, and we point them out. A good friend can do that. A mentor can do that. So surround yourself. mean, community's the first step. Surround yourself with at least one other person that you can share this with. And then...

Jane Ballard (27:54.655)
Absolutely.

Chris Janssen (28:01.3)
then what I have people do is on the right side of the paper then you're going to write your new story but you do that by only taking what's true from the left side and then you rewrite a meaning to it. So like in the example I just used the only thing I just said that was true is I'm addicted to alcohol. All that other stuff I'm weak willed I'm not disciplined that's all a story I attach to a fact. So then we then we do the process of the new story.

Jane Ballard (28:19.678)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (28:30.771)
the new story and you can probably find lots of evidence in your life of having a strong will and having discipline that can help support that new narrative. Yeah.

Chris Janssen (28:31.753)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Janssen (28:38.946)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and then where coaches are helpful too is when someone's writing the new story, we're able to coach them on what language to use to write it down, right? Like not, have to, know, using things like I get to, I choose to instead of I should. Things like that are really important.

Jane Ballard (29:02.121)
Yes.

Chris Janssen (29:07.168)
It just is a little thing, but these things are so simple and we also have to pay attention to them. The language that floats through our brain all day, it narrates our identity and our self-worth, right? So we've got to change the language and really condition what we're allowing ourselves to say out our mouth and listen to in our heads and absorb coming from other people too.

Jane Ballard (29:20.915)
That's so true.

Jane Ballard (29:37.255)
Absolutely. Like recognizing that we aren't victims, we have agency and we have choices. The options in which we have to choose from we may not like, but we do have choices. And I think that can feel so empowering. just, you know, in a way it feels scary to take responsibility for everything, but it's actually very freeing because then you really realize where you do have a little bit of control and where you don't.

Chris Janssen (29:42.786)
Mm-hmm. Yes. Mm-hmm.

Chris Janssen (29:49.218)
Mm-hmm. Yes, exactly.

Chris Janssen (30:05.976)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's right. Yes.

Jane Ballard (30:08.883)
Yeah. So you talked a little bit about community and you have kind of two day ones. What was it like finding community both of those times? Because it sounds like you were in two different cities on your day one.

Chris Janssen (30:14.914)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Janssen (30:18.84)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Janssen (30:24.59)
The first time it was scary because I never knew anyone had been to that and I just found it online. I googled what to do with this problem. And it was a 12-step meeting. I went the next morning and that became my community. The second time it was trickier because I did go back to that group, not in the same town, in a different town. I went to the 12-step meeting.

Jane Ballard (30:35.315)
Yeah.

Chris Janssen (30:54.422)
And because of where I was in my head, all I saw was the differences. All I saw was, don't like their language. This doesn't resonate with me as a life coach. I hated the word relapse. I don't want to be on another day one. I really just took everything I didn't like about it and focused on that. And we get what we focus on. If we're focused on those things, that will be true, right? was more focused on why it wouldn't work than why it needed to.

Jane Ballard (30:59.526)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (31:18.353)
so true.

Chris Janssen (31:23.982)
and why it would work. And so I went on a pursuit to figure out a different way to get sober. And I, you know, it was different in 2007. We only had rehab or AA. You're an alcoholic or you're not. So that worked for me because, you know, I go into it in the book, why that worked for me and why it's important to only label yourself what will work for you.

Jane Ballard (31:24.092)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (31:37.489)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (31:50.291)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Janssen (31:51.746)
but that's what worked for me. The second time I just, I was stubborn and I decided that's not gonna work. And so I tried these new things that had come on the scene. There's apps now, there's online sobriety groups, there's all this quit lit. I ingested all of it. I read every book, I went to every new group, I did the online groups, I got the apps.

Jane Ballard (32:06.013)
Yes, there's so much.

Chris Janssen (32:18.734)
And a lot of it's great and I know I can tell you from that experience people are getting sober in those groups. They're great. It just wasn't working for me. It was confusing this idea a lot of a lot of the messages I heard at least was You know, you don't need to call yourself an alcoholic You can have a drink if you want to we're just gonna make it so you don't want to will present the facts of the toxicity of alcohol and so I really

Jane Ballard (32:28.67)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (32:42.705)
Yeah.

and that will take away the desire or something.

Chris Janssen (32:47.718)
Exactly, so I really tried to make that true and it really backfired because the problem there is what happens on the day I do want to. I don't have a why, now I'm not calling myself alcoholic so I don't have a safety system. Like if I want to, that's a green light. Like I'm thinking, yeah.

Jane Ballard (32:58.995)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (33:06.815)
And it almost, and it negates that idea of the allergy, you know, and then it's like, well, maybe I am a monster then because yeah, I can't just have one like some of these people are doing.

Chris Janssen (33:14.605)
Yes.

Chris Janssen (33:18.56)
Yes.

Chris Janssen (33:22.912)
Yes, exactly. puts it back where it's my fault because I can't control it. so that really, again, not blaming, I know that's working for some people. really, it honestly almost killed me because I went with that mindset and that led to my last drunk where I almost died. So...

Jane Ballard (33:29.566)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (33:43.785)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (33:48.332)
gosh, that's terrifying.

Chris Janssen (33:50.21)
So that morning after, well, the morning after I couldn't even move. the morning after, the morning after, I went back to my 12 step group and wouldn't you know, it looked totally, same people, same clubhouse, different brain, different version of me. And it was like, I...

Jane Ballard (34:05.501)
different version of you.

Chris Janssen (34:11.75)
Nobody was judgy. None of those things that I had made up in my head about it were true at all. It was just loving and welcome back. Glad you're here. So I'm still in that group. I mean, it saved my life a second time. And I just don't think I can leave it. I don't think we live in a world where people like me who have been pickled by alcohol, we can't go back to being a cucumber.

Jane Ballard (34:29.843)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (34:40.691)
Yeah.

Chris Janssen (34:40.982)
I just don't think it's possible in the world we live in now, if you're like me and not just doing it for health reasons, I don't think it's possible to just go have continuous sobriety without a community. I think we need each other. We need other people like us who have the same, they don't have to have the same backstory as us, but if we have the same shared goal.

Jane Ballard (34:49.663)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (34:58.036)
Yeah.

Absolutely.

Jane Ballard (35:08.381)
Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Janssen (35:09.446)
I can't be in a group with people trying to moderate alcohol or like a mindful drinking group. That's not going to work for me because that's not my goal. My goal is abstinence. So have to be in a group where the goal is abstinent.

Jane Ballard (35:13.435)
No. Yeah. Yeah.

Jane Ballard (35:22.259)
Yes, because moderation could be life threatening. Yeah, I think that makes so much sense. And to me, moderation just sounds like a living hell because it takes a lot of management. Why choose a path that takes a ton of management and also keeps you at this kind of like glass ceiling of growing spiritually and

Chris Janssen (35:25.696)
Yes, and it was, yes.

Chris Janssen (35:36.545)
Yeah.

Chris Janssen (35:49.592)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (35:51.571)
just as a person, even if it's not life threatening, it's a lot of work. And if you can challenge yourself to live completely alcohol free, you kind of experience an alternative to the limiting beliefs that might be there that I can't have fun without alcohol or people won't accept me or I'll have to quit hanging out with these people. You realize that those are just stories you've been telling yourself and...

Chris Janssen (35:53.25)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Janssen (36:07.298)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Janssen (36:10.936)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Janssen (36:16.558)
and how.

Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (36:20.063)
They're only true if you believe they're true.

Chris Janssen (36:22.466)
That's exactly right. Yes. Yes. Because I thought, I don't want to use the word relapse. I'm a life coach. I didn't go out on a low note. I went out on a high note. Like I went out like, okay, well, I think all those things I drank over are gone and I've evolved and I don't think I need to be absent anymore. I mean, it's just silly the way I was thinking. However, I realized

Jane Ballard (36:25.053)
Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Janssen (36:51.35)
like immediately, yes, I've changed, but alcohol has not. It's still just as confusing and baffling and powerful as it always was. so to me, and so when I, didn't, still, you know, I don't mind the word relapse. I don't go around, you know, using it a ton because it doesn't feel, it felt like I had a drinking curious experiment and I tested this, but I didn't.

Jane Ballard (36:56.306)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (37:11.1)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (37:17.541)
Yeah. You needed a data point to make sure.

Chris Janssen (37:22.548)
Yes, and I didn't go, I don't recommend it for anybody. Like I'll just write, read the book, read the book before you go try it for yourself. It's very high risk. I'm lucky to be alive. And so, but I think that word stung, like how can we be saying I've relapsed when I'm like grown? And the whole point is who cares about the word? It's just, I was...

Jane Ballard (37:26.489)
Yeah, it's risky, high risk.

Jane Ballard (37:48.36)
Yeah.

Chris Janssen (37:51.2)
I was just looking for reasons it wasn't gonna work.

Jane Ballard (37:54.131)
Yeah, and the fact that you drank again, whatever the word is, it doesn't negate the growth that occurred during your years of sobriety. And like you said, the substance didn't change and also your human biology didn't change. You didn't get a new body that responds differently to ethanol, you know? It got worse, yes. And that happens to us, especially as women.

Chris Janssen (38:01.995)
No!

Chris Janssen (38:14.098)
If anything, it got worse because I'm older now and my hormones and everything. Yes. Yes.

Jane Ballard (38:21.971)
Yes, that's so true. And so it's not like you are like morally inferior or lacked self-discipline. It's just your biology is your biology and the substance is the substance. And those are the things that were powerless to change.

Chris Janssen (38:28.654)
Right. Right. That's right.

Right. Isn't it silly? Like, I really think, I don't know how many years from now, but in the future, we won't be having these conversations because all these kids, like I have three kids in their twenties and they're so smart. One of them just didn't even ever want to try alcohol because of all the evidence out there. Right? So like, you know, I mean, I never...

Jane Ballard (38:47.391)
Absolutely.

Jane Ballard (38:57.523)
Yes.

Chris Janssen (39:01.674)
wanted to try cigarettes because I grew up in an age when we'd already decided that wasn't a thing and it wasn't stigmatic if you don't smoke. I I still grew up when it was very stigmatic if you did drink alcohol. And actually my one kid that doesn't drink said he really appreciates my book because it takes the stigma off people who don't want to drink. Right? And so I didn't think about that till he said that. I thought, right, yes.

Jane Ballard (39:06.739)
You knew.

Jane Ballard (39:15.72)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (39:25.276)
I love that.

Chris Janssen (39:31.384)
That's.

Jane Ballard (39:31.891)
That's really true. I graduated high school in the late 90s. And I feel like that was, I was on the cusp of that time period where there was a stigma for drinking, especially appearing intoxicated. But then eventually that stigma began to lift. even in very religious circles and conservative circles of people socially, it became very socially acceptable to drink and to drink to excess. And so at some point our culture did

Chris Janssen (39:41.944)
Yes.

Chris Janssen (39:47.352)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (40:01.981)
Shift.

Chris Janssen (40:02.606)
Mm-hmm. It's great. It's wonderful. I know I grew up in a time I graduated high school in 87 and you know going to school. I don't know if it's where you I in California went to college in high school, but it was hilarious. Whoever was the drunkest at the party that was all the fun stories the next morning. Everybody laughed. It was very glorified and romanticized acting like an idiot.

Jane Ballard (40:05.183)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (40:23.443)
Yes, and everybody laughs about it and...

Jane Ballard (40:29.533)
Yes, yeah, yes. But I think it will have a similar evolution like cigarettes. And we realized, you know, it was just last year that finally the attorney general announced that alcohol is a carcinogen and it is directly causal to seven different types of cancer, including breast cancer, which is terrifying, but also so good for us to know so that we can.

Chris Janssen (40:32.341)
Ha ha ha

Chris Janssen (40:39.287)
Hmm.

Chris Janssen (40:44.771)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Janssen (40:55.406)
And it just happened.

Jane Ballard (40:59.017)
have this information so we can make at least decisions that are informed, know, make informed consent.

Chris Janssen (41:04.342)
Yes, absolutely.

Jane Ballard (41:06.473)
Yeah. Well, if listeners take just one message from your book and from your story and your experience as a human and as a coach, what would that be?

Chris Janssen (41:22.446)
It would be you don't get to decide your worth. You're valuable if you're addicted. You're valuable if you're stuck. You're valuable if you're not addicted and you're unstuck. You're valuable if you're sick. You're valuable if you're healthy. There's nothing you can do to negate your worth period.

Jane Ballard (41:41.277)
Yeah, I love that. I think that's so important. I heard someone talking about how to show unconditional love to a child. And they were saying, you know, saying to your child, there's nothing you can do that would make me love you anymore or any less. You can't earn any more love and you can't mess up and lose love. just, the love is there. It's infinite.

Chris Janssen (41:57.826)
Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Chris Janssen (42:06.575)
huh.

Jane Ballard (42:07.623)
And I think our inherent worth as humans is that way too. And that's what grace is.

Chris Janssen (42:11.698)
huh.

Yeah, that's I love that what you just said about the child. Wonderful, wonderful thing to tell our children.

Jane Ballard (42:21.895)
Yes, and I feel like it's intuitive to be like, of course there's nothing you could do that would make me love you any less. But if we don't tack on that, and also you can't do anything to make me love you anymore, I think that's important because, you know, as women, we're often like driven to perform and be perfectionistic and we're seeking approval and we don't have to wear ourselves out like that. We can just be.

Chris Janssen (42:32.77)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Chris Janssen (42:40.764)
huh.

Chris Janssen (42:45.08)
You know, yes, just be yes.

Jane Ballard (42:48.671)
Yes. Well, where can listeners find your book?

Chris Janssen (42:54.262)
Anywhere books are sold, it's called Grace Yourself, How to Show Up for the Sober Life You Want. My website is chrisjansoncoaching.com and you can read more about the book there. There's other links of where to buy it. And then you can also read about my coaching services there. And then I'm on Instagram, chris3janson, and then I'm on LinkedIn and Facebook.

Jane Ballard (43:04.615)
Okay.

Jane Ballard (43:14.738)
Awesome.

Jane Ballard (43:22.367)
all the things. Well, we will make sure and link all of those things in the show notes and as well as your book. I'm sure Amazon is a popular place to find it. So we'll put a link there as well. Chris, thank you so much. It's been such a pleasure getting to visit with you and hear about your story.

Chris Janssen (43:23.202)
Be all the things.

Chris Janssen (43:44.864)
Thank you, Jane. I so loved being with you.

Jane Ballard (43:48.103)
You're welcome.