52. An Inside Look at Jane and Amanda's Lives 2 Years Post Breaking Up With Booze

Jane Ballard (00:02.424)
Hello, hello. Thank you all for joining us today. Amanda and I are both here together again, which is so exciting. It's been a while and I am super pumped about this episode because today is the one year anniversary of Mindful Sobriety, the podcast. And we're celebrating and we're glad you're here to celebrate with us.

Amanda (00:31.425)
Absolutely. I can't believe it's been a year and I just think that's crazy. And I was thinking about all of the mountains and valleys of this year and or last year now. And, you know, just the consistency of getting these episodes out regularly and how much fun it's been and also challenging also.

Jane Ballard (00:42.733)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (00:52.544)
Yes, it's been challenging and it's been an amazing learning opportunity. You know, I was thinking this morning as I'm using my new mic that I'm so excited about. I've learned a lot about how to use technology and how to record and edit and all of that stuff.

Amanda (00:59.488)
Mm-hmm.

Amanda (01:12.021)
That's a really good point. Yeah. I mean, really reflecting back to the beginning of 2024 and like, I think we both started and thought, you know, this is gonna be so easy. And then we were like, wow, this is, we've got some stuff to learn. Yeah.

Jane Ballard (01:23.276)
Yeah.

Maybe not as easy. Yes. Well, and if anyone goes back and listens to the very first episode that came out a year ago, the recording quality is pretty low. you know, we've through trial and error and different devices and microphones and various technology, I think we're figuring it out. It's a work in progress.

Amanda (01:50.271)
Absolutely. Yeah, and we'll definitely continue to allow new technology as needed and just new stuff to come for sure on the podcast.

Jane Ballard (02:03.308)
Yeah, one of my absolute favorite things that hadn't occurred to me was a possibility. One of my favorite things about doing this podcast is getting to talk to so many interesting, inspiring, amazing people all over the world. know, like we've had Alex McRoberts in Bali. She's been on

Olivia Farrelly in Ireland, Gray area drinker has been on like we've had people from all over and it's it's just been so much fun. Plus lots of Texas people which you know we're Texans and we're interviewing our locals and they they've been impressive.

Amanda (02:44.511)
Yeah, I agree.

Amanda (02:54.527)
Yeah, I mean, that's a really good point. We have gotten the privilege of interviewing a lot of really cool people from therapists to sisters that are also on this journey with us and just different people all over the world, like you said, people that are sober, people that are not sober, just some really cool stories that we've heard this year on the podcast.

Jane Ballard (03:20.974)
Absolutely. And you know, one of actually one of our most listened to episodes recently was was a Mario whose name I always butcher when I try to say it Mario Ben Chavanga in Long Island. He just randomly reached out to me 24 year old guy on Instagram and asked to come on the podcast. And I thought that was so cool that

He had the courage to do that and put himself out there. He'd never even been on a podcast before, but he had listened to a couple episodes and wanted to share his story and just getting to meet him. I'm old enough to be his mom and we had an awesome conversation.

Amanda (04:01.941)
Yeah.

Amanda (04:06.687)
Yeah, that's a really cool place to be when you do get to this place in life where you're interacting with people that are way younger than you that you could be the mother to. And I don't know, I just I'm sure you felt the same way. But for so long, I just thought I was the youngest person, never thought I would. Of course, I knew I would get to this stage in life. But to actually be here is a whole nother story.

Jane Ballard (04:18.593)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (04:33.646)
Right. It seemed like it was just this thing way off in the future that was never going to happen. Although, I mean, I still think of myself as young. I still feel like I'm young, but then I remember, yeah, you're old enough to be this 24 year old guy's mom. His parents are probably not that much older than you.

Amanda (04:40.513)
But thank God it did, right?

Yeah.

Amanda (04:52.597)
Yeah, same.

Yeah, absolutely. With me going back to school at the same time as my 18 year old son, Miles, it's I always the the college that I go to is like 30 minutes from my house. And so a lot of his classmates stayed local and went to this college. And so I'm always wondering if I'm going to run into one of his friends at school, which I feel like would be super weird. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Jane Ballard (05:20.984)
That would be so cool though too, you know?

No, I'm so excited for you and just in awe of all the things that you're doing right now with going back to school and, you know, making straight A's. Amanda has a 4.0, everybody.

Amanda (05:26.849)
But yeah.

Amanda (05:42.093)
Thank you. Yeah. And I'm, I appreciate you saying that. And I'm just want to honor the things that you've accomplished in 2024. I mean, you started a business, which is amazing. Manage to keep doing the podcast, which is a lot, you know, on top of, I think a lot of people probably when they're starting a business, just start a business and you've had like,

Jane Ballard (05:53.07)
Thank you.

Jane Ballard (06:03.67)
Yeah.

Amanda (06:06.611)
marketing for retreats, hosting retreats, going on retreats, working your full-time job, getting your coaching certifications, starting the business and doing the podcast plus some other stuff. It's just been, it's been a lot, you know.

Jane Ballard (06:22.73)
It has been a lot. It really has. Sometimes I forget that and then I wonder why I'm so tired and I'm like, yeah, I took on a lot this year and it's been really rewarding and a lot of fun. And also I think I'm realizing I need to slow down a little bit for 2025.

Amanda (06:34.453)
Yeah.

Amanda (06:47.445)
Yeah, and I think that might be really hard to do.

Jane Ballard (06:51.09)
my gosh, it's so hard. you know, we hear a lot about people switching addictions and I hate the word addiction because I don't feel like I was addicted to alcohol, but it was a probably a form of coping. Well, definitely it was a form of coping. I've got to be real about this. Come on, Jane. Let's let's be real. I, you know, I did probably subconsciously, I did use it to cope. my gosh, what is wrong with me?

Amanda (06:52.683)
Mm-hmm.

Amanda (07:04.513)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Amanda (07:15.873)
I love it. I love it. I love that you are doing this internal work where you are calling yourself out. That's powerful, you know?

Jane Ballard (07:27.316)
Yes. Yeah. So when I guess as I've taken away alcohol as a means of escape, I feel like I've inadvertently replaced busyness in trying to like accomplish things, which I love learning and I love accomplishing things who doesn't. But it's like I've got to find some balance here.

Amanda (07:55.871)
Yeah, that's really tough. I can totally relate. was just thinking about that earlier. And as you were talking, I thought about not necessarily the text from the book by Rick Warren, Purpose Driven Life, but just the title, Purpose Driven Life. I feel like what you're describing is a very purpose driven life. And so just finding some balance, you know, with so that you don't feel

Jane Ballard (07:58.721)
It's tough.

Jane Ballard (08:10.22)
Mm-hmm.

Amanda (08:24.533)
like you have too much on your plate and so that you still have time to do what you need to do. But yeah, it sounds like you have brought a lot of drive and purpose into your world, which is really not that you didn't have that before, but I know that it's definitely probably more meaningful now.

Jane Ballard (08:29.133)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (08:38.85)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (08:43.36)
It's more meaningful and a lot of the things I was working towards and doing over the last year have been motivated by wanting to get this message out that we don't have to drink to have fun or to be cool or to be a part of sophisticated living as adults, you know? And so I think it's so aligned with my purpose, the work I was doing, that it didn't feel like work.

until I realized that there were other aspects of my life that I was neglecting and I started, know, after time passed, I started feeling the consequence of that. One being just my health, you know, like we were talking before we hit record, like, well, one, I'm getting over COVID right now, but it's just like been kind of a series of

different things coming up over the last year. And I'm like, I need to slow down and listen to my body. And, you I talk about this a lot when I'm working with clients who are working on overcoming depression. Like one of the evidence-based treatments for depression is pleasurable activity scheduling. And we think of pleasurable activities or leisure activities.

as being kind of an adult, an indulgence or, you know, not worth anything or not productive or we're so focused on being productive. But in order to actually be a healthy, thriving human, we have to have pleasurable activities. We can't just be working and grinding and striving constantly. We have to take time for rest, for laziness.

what we would term laziness, laying on the couch and just sitting with family members or friends and watching a movie or chatting about something meaningless. Like those things are actually super important. They're not waste of time. Like being unproductive is actually productive because that enables you to be a healthy, balanced human. And so I'm just reminding myself of that truth. Like I've got to...

Amanda (10:56.737)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (11:01.91)
remember these things that I know and actually carry them out in my own life.

Amanda (11:07.637)
Yeah, absolutely. I was just thinking that I would guess that before I did go alcohol free, if someone were to ask me like, what would you define a pleasurable activity as? I would have definitely said something that involved wine. Like the activity would 100 % have included wine. And so then when you get to the part where you're, you know, laying on the couch,

Jane Ballard (11:27.0)
Mm-hmm.

Amanda (11:36.777)
or doing these things that are beneficial to your health, or having the meaningless conversation that's actually meaningful, you're doing it whenever we drink the night before, we're doing it hungover. And so we're not actually getting the benefit of the rest.

Jane Ballard (11:53.976)
That's an actually, that's an amazing point. And not only that, but we're probably feeling guilty for doing it because it's not like it's intentional. I'm going to set aside this time to relax and hang out and be present with people. It's like, I feel too crappy to be up doing the things I quote unquote should be doing. And so you're sitting there like recovering and feeling guilty instead of like,

just reveling in allowing your body to rest and your mind to rest.

Amanda (12:26.209)
Yeah, absolutely. So I, yeah, so.

Jane Ballard (12:32.204)
You've got some puppies in the background I can hear you. You've got two new puppies, right?

Amanda (12:36.481)
Yes, oh my gosh, they're a handful, Jane, such a handful. But they're precious and I love them and they brought a lot of joy to our house for sure. Nice to have little, every time I see a baby right now, I think of my puppies. Yeah, so yeah, we have a lot of gratitude for all of our listeners in 2024 and yeah.

Jane Ballard (12:40.462)
Aww.

Jane Ballard (12:47.434)
I bet.

Jane Ballard (12:52.523)
so precious.

Jane Ballard (13:01.442)
Absolutely. Our listeners and our guests and anyone who has taken the time to share our podcast with a friend or even things like rating the podcast or reviewing it or following it, saving it under your Spotify or Apple podcasts. All of those things mean so much to us and really help us get

Amanda (13:18.859)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (13:30.712)
the episode out to more people, podcast out to more people.

Amanda (13:34.441)
Absolutely, yeah, it makes such a difference when you guys leave ratings, reviews, and just hit the follow button. It only takes a few seconds to hit that follow button and it makes such a difference in the podcast world. So if you haven't already, we would be so grateful if you took a moment to follow the podcast.

Jane Ballard (13:57.59)
Absolutely. The other thing I am going to be putting a link in the show notes for anyone who has a question. We want to start doing Ask Me Anything episodes where we come on and we pull up your questions and we answer them in the podcast. I will put a link in the show notes where listeners can fill out forms and submit your questions and Amanda and I will be happy to

Amanda (14:07.329)
you

Jane Ballard (14:27.7)
answer them to the best of our ability on here. So we really want this to be interactive and feel like a community and we would love for all of you guys to participate and reach out to us.

Amanda (14:31.499)
Absolutely.

Amanda (14:39.379)
Absolutely. And in that link, if you also want to include if you have an interest in coming on the podcast, we would love to have anybody on that is interested. Yeah, and we can do whatever you want. If you're wanting to share your testimony, that's fantastic. If you want to come on and do like a live coaching session or live therapy type session, we are happy to do anything like that with you guys. I feel like that would be super fun. Yeah.

Jane Ballard (15:06.158)
Ooh, that would be fun. You know who does that is Esther Perel. She's the kind of well-known couples therapist. And she has a podcast where she has people on and she'll do a live session. And I'm like, wow, that's so just fascinating to hear people's stories in that context and hear that live.

Amanda (15:27.732)
you

Jane Ballard (15:34.062)
processing and transformation and healing going on in real time.

Amanda (15:38.709)
Yeah, can be healing for everyone. know, the therapist, the person that is on the episode, and then everyone listening is able to get little nuggets of healing as they listen and carry that information into their own lives.

Jane Ballard (15:41.838)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (15:56.161)
Absolutely.

Amanda (15:59.841)
So I was thinking we would do a little game kind of where you pick a number between one and 100 and I will give you the corresponding word to that number. Basically the idea is that this will be, you can use this as your word for 2025 or you can use it in addition to your word that you already have if you already have one.

Jane Ballard (16:13.185)
Okay.

Amanda (16:25.459)
And for the listeners, if you guys want to also click on the link that Jane's putting in and just pick a number, we'll be happy to send you your word as well.

Jane Ballard (16:34.444)
Yes. I love this. I'm excited. Okay. So what do I do? Just pick a number. gosh.

Amanda (16:39.573)
What's it gonna be, sister? Between one and 100.

Jane Ballard (16:45.054)
let's do 25 for 2025.

Amanda (16:49.505)
I love it. I haven't had anybody pick that number yet. 2025, this is so good. It's balance.

Jane Ballard (16:56.234)
my gosh, it's meant to be.

Amanda (16:58.657)
It is and then to go along with that with the meeting that I hosted last night for New Year's Eve I read everyone a Card, so I will read your card to you Your card says Peaceful pond I am at peace. I am a pond as still as glass I'm at peace with everything that has happened everything that will happen and everything that is happening

I accept reality as is. Today I carry peace.

Jane Ballard (17:31.778)
love that. Will you send me a picture of it?

Amanda (17:34.561)
Absolutely, and I will send anybody their card that's listening that sends us a number that they want their number or their word from. So that's fun.

Jane Ballard (17:43.66)
You know, I love the water aspect of that. Like something the last few months that I've been, I don't know, meditating on or when I get anxious or when I'm resisting or ruminating or trying to control something, I remind myself to be like water and just flow and allow things to be as they are. Like water's been kind of this healing thing. I also think of like an ocean and how

There's all these individual waves, but they're all part of the same body of water. And that's kind of like we humans are. And so reminding myself flow like water and to just be in my peaceful pond. I love it. New meditation for 2025.

Amanda (18:22.975)
Yeah.

Amanda (18:30.217)
I love that. there's stuff. I love that. There's definitely water is very healing also, you know, if it can be very meditative and really bring us out of a dark place or negative mindset or just whatever kind of feelings that we're having if if we're trying to move on to something else, like just running our hands underwater or especially taking a shower.

Jane Ballard (18:58.584)
Yeah.

Amanda (18:58.901)
very like it's like I don't know almost the word baptismal comes to my mind it's like washing off everything that is not serving you.

Jane Ballard (19:08.558)
almost like a cleansing or like a reset.

Amanda (19:10.336)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jane Ballard (19:14.604)
I was reading somewhere yesterday, and now I can't even remember where, but it was saying that there are studies that show that being in the presence of a body of water calms the nervous system and brings a sense of peace and calm. So that's interesting. I thought, of course, my happy place. I love White Rock Lake here in Dallas, and I love that trail and going there to jog or walk or just hang out.

Amanda (19:43.829)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (19:43.916)
And I think part of the reason is because it is a body of water and there's little animals out there and wildlife and people. And it's just, it's so soothing to me.

Amanda (19:57.567)
Yeah. One thing that you said when you were, when we first started talking about this is you said the two words, just be. And I had actually written down prior to this podcast, just kind of random thoughts. I had written down just kind of be, just kind of be. And that is what you were describing at White Rock Lake is you go there. Like I can imagine you saying to your husband, like, I'm to go to White Rock Lake and just be.

You know what I mean? I'm just gonna be I don't know if I'm gonna run or walk or sit or play or ride, you know, like, I don't know, but I'm just gonna be at Rock Walkway. Yeah.

Jane Ballard (20:26.996)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (20:33.706)
Yeah, I'm going to be. Well, and also, there's a couple of docs and there's one in particular that's, it's got all these reads kind of coming up on the side. So it's kind of hidden and it's shaped like a T. And so I'll walk out and then go to one edge of the T and do yoga and meditate. And that's so peaceful and you're kind of hidden. Nobody can really see you. So it's like this private place.

Amanda (20:59.339)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. That definitely makes me think of the word attunement that we were talking about before the podcast. And like, we need that time that we're just being to get attuned to reconnect with ourselves and find some quiet, know, like, because our minds are so busy.

Jane Ballard (21:12.174)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (21:19.852)
How?

Jane Ballard (21:24.216)
so busy, so much input, especially now with smartphones and everything is on our phones. you know, there's not just like two methods of communicating when you're not in person. It used to be you either send somebody a letter or you call them on the phone. This was how it was for most of my upbringing, you know, until college really.

Amanda (21:26.785)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (21:53.602)
I guess in high school there was AOL in high school, but I never used it. I didn't have email till college. Now we have email, text, phone, FaceTime, DMing on whatever social media app there might be. My kids talk to their friends or my son through his video game.

Amanda (22:21.555)
Yeah, snap.

Jane Ballard (22:21.762)
They call people on their Alexas. It's like, what? Help.

Amanda (22:25.657)
and gotta have Snapchat, gotta throw Snapchat in there. The teenagers are always, yeah. It's, mm-hmm, yeah, that's a really good point. You know, there's definitely a lot of benefit to all of the additional methods of communication, but there's a huge con, you know, like if we're weighing pros and cons, there's a lot of pros, I won't deny that. I'm so glad that I get to text you and jump on these virtual calls with you.

Jane Ballard (22:29.064)
Snapchat, snapping.

Jane Ballard (22:53.089)
Yes.

Amanda (22:54.987)
However, the biggest con for me is like the disconnect that you experience with your immediate family due to, and yourself, due to this wide platform of communication that we now have.

Jane Ballard (23:11.534)
Absolutely. Well, and I end up feeling guilty because I fail to respond promptly to all the messages or I'm trying to do it and my kids are trying to talk to me and I think that the solution for me is that I need to figure out how to manage this and what are my boundaries and all of those kinds of things, you know, I think like we as a culture just haven't really figured out how to manage this quite yet in an effective way.

Amanda (23:41.493)
Yeah. And I think maybe like what you just said about figuring out what the boundary is exactly and finding that boundary slash balance and seeing how that works, you know? I think for me, that looks like not necessarily, I'm not a big fan of like really hard lines in the sand with stuff, but

Jane Ballard (23:56.866)
Yeah, for sure.

Amanda (24:09.791)
Because what wouldn't work is saying at seven o'clock every day, I'm going to not take any more calls. But the idea of at a certain time, maybe put the phone away and disconnect.

Jane Ballard (24:14.765)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (24:21.408)
Yes, at some point before a few hours before bed or a couple hours trying to start winding down, like having some sort of transition point in the day.

Amanda (24:32.033)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, it's terrifying really if you think about like, what would we do without our phones? Like the thought of not having my cell phone is terrifying, especially having a kid at college. I'm like, but kids used to go to college all the time without cell phones, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

Jane Ballard (24:43.682)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (24:48.57)
I Yes. It's crazy. Yeah. So the game, do I get to like, I can't ask you, can I get you to pick a number and you do yourself or is that pointless?

Amanda (25:02.977)
We can do, I'll do that. So I picked 77. I don't know what that is, but I'm gonna go down here and see. 77 is transformation.

Jane Ballard (25:05.346)
Okay.

Jane Ballard (25:11.052)
I like it.

Ooh.

Amanda (25:16.17)
I'll have to put that on a note card also. I did this game with a different list of words with another friend yesterday and the word she gave me was understand. And so at first I was like, I don't really want that word. then I, yeah. So I sat with it for a little bit and you know, I actually do appreciate that word because I need to take more time to understand.

Jane Ballard (25:31.094)
That's kind of basic, I mean, what?

Amanda (25:47.509)
the people in my immediate family, like really give them my attention, my undivided attention. because it's not, it goes back to, you what we were just talking about with cell phones, really. Sometimes I just feel really disconnected because I'm not taking time to understand them at all.

Jane Ballard (26:06.306)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (26:11.61)
and it's not like you're doing that on purpose. It's just, we're almost like on autopilot, know, trying to keep up with the demands of all the things that need to be done and the messages to answer and the messages to send and, know, life.

Amanda (26:13.437)
Mm-hmm.

Amanda (26:19.745)
Yeah.

Amanda (26:30.623)
Yeah. And you know, I think what a lot of people are, I've never heard anybody talk about this is the down, not the downfall, but one thing that comes when you start doing the work, especially on an alcohol free journey, is you want to improve your life, become the best version of yourself, become the most successful version of yourself, do all these things. and it's a lot of

going, going, going, doing, doing, doing, and not just being.

Jane Ballard (27:01.006)
So true. It's so true. Kind of going back to what we were talking about earlier with like the busyness of this past year and the striving and the accomplishing.

Like what is success if you don't have time to stop and just enjoy your life and be present? You know, I think it's almost like defining like what does success mean? It's not just about a career or achieving goals. It's about like actually waking up in the morning and feeling some excitement about your day and enjoying life, like making it fun.

Amanda (27:42.453)
Yeah, like when you first come home from a retreat and like that first day, you just have all of this goodness to pour into your family and you want to tell them all about all the things you learn and how impactful it is. And I don't know, I just feel that excited energy when I first get home from a retreat and. But also with that comes this the inspiration leads to more doing right.

Jane Ballard (28:00.534)
Yes, like you're inspired and rejuvenated.

Jane Ballard (28:12.022)
Absolutely. Yeah. I know. Like when you said the word transformation, I felt like a negative emotion come up in me of like, can't we just be what we are? Like how much transforming do we need to do? But I think that's just indicative of where I am with burnout and transformation could mean so many different things. It doesn't mean that you have to transform. It could be that your

Amanda (28:25.345)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (28:41.738)
relationship with doing is transformed.

Amanda (28:44.833)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. And when my friend, when our friend, Kim, gave me the word understand yesterday, she read off some other words to go along with understand, to think about also. And those words are believe, get, comprehend, realize, grasp. Those to go along with understand. And so when I think of transformation and

Jane Ballard (28:52.066)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (29:08.035)
Yeah.

Amanda (29:13.445)
get grasp, realize, it kind of, feel like it kind of can go hand in hand, understand and transform.

Jane Ballard (29:21.28)
Yes.

Absolutely. Because really something objectively can stay exactly the same. But if you can really understand it accurately, it's almost like it is transformed.

Amanda (29:40.041)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jane Ballard (29:41.014)
You know, like one of my favorite quotes, Wayne Dyer is known well for this quote, but I think it was originally Max Planck. It's when you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change. You know, it's what's the lens through which you're viewing the thing and what is the narrative that you've created and is that narrative accurate and helpful? And if not, let's reframe it.

Amanda (29:53.633)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Amanda (29:59.574)
Yeah.

Amanda (30:09.653)
Yeah, yeah, I mean, we have so much more power than we realize sometimes. And what you just said, man, really hit a chord in me because I was thinking about relationships and how my lens has changed with a lot of relationships and it's and the things have changed because of my lens. And I don't have to deal with a lot of things that I have to

deal with, I used to have to deal with in those relationships because I decided that the way I was thinking about something was not, it wasn't working anymore. It wasn't serving me to hold that story. So I just kind of shifted the story to what does serve me.

Jane Ballard (30:58.787)
Yeah.

And that can sound the selfish. I can hear the naysayers right now.

Amanda (31:01.568)
because

Amanda (31:05.121)
Yeah, that's okay.

Jane Ballard (31:07.22)
of, well, that's convenient. You just changed the story to serve you, but it's more nuanced than that, right?

Amanda (31:13.887)
Yeah, I'm not necessarily, I understand what you're saying for sure. And the best way I know how to describe that right now for anybody that may think it's crazy to think like that is that it's not really telling, it's not telling yourself a lie. Like you're not lying to yourself about anything. You're just reframing your perception, you know, cause it's all about perception and how we look at things.

Jane Ballard (31:31.522)
Mm-mm.

Jane Ballard (31:43.446)
Absolutely. It's like you're getting really clear on it. Like I think an example of that could be

Amanda (31:43.848)
And yeah.

Yeah.

Jane Ballard (31:53.012)
Well, in my own house growing up, we were very attuned at the encouragement of one of my parents to be attuned to the other parent's mood and to behave in a way so as not to make that into a more negative mood. Therefore, I think I grew up subconsciously thinking that I need to be attuned to other people's moods and adjust my behavior so that I don't stress them out.

Amanda (32:08.17)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (32:27.162)
And I think a more accurate reframe of that would be, I'm not responsible for managing somebody else's mood. I'm only responsible for my own behavior, my own moods and how I manage those.

Amanda (32:47.809)
Yeah, I think it is very human of you to have adopted that mindset or.

For you to have grown up thinking that it was your job to shift your mood or your behavior or your, however you're experiencing life to make someone else feel better or I totally can relate to that for sure.

Jane Ballard (33:14.2)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah, I think that many people can, you know, of just, I need to adjust me to suit them because it keeps me safe, you know? It's not like this completely altruistic thing. It's like, because it's scary if that person gets irritated or upset or angry or whatever. So I need to do, I, it's,

Amanda (33:22.038)
Mm-hmm.

Amanda (33:38.017)
Mm-hmm.

Amanda (33:42.037)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (33:46.27)
I have to control the situation in order to keep me safe. And really, maybe that worked for me growing up. know, a lot of times these coping skills we create or learn, they work well. They serve us well as children when we really have no power and we don't have a lot of control. But when we bring them into adulthood,

Amanda (33:54.443)
Mm-hmm.

Amanda (34:06.081)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (34:11.702)
and we no longer need them yet, we're using them without realizing we're using them. A lot of times it creates problems. And I think for me, the problem it has created that I have been working on and will continue to work on probably for the rest of my life is that I internalize a lot of things and I keep it inside and I manage it internally and I appear very calm on the outside, but there's a lot happening on the inside.

And it's exhausting.

Amanda (34:43.989)
Yeah, absolutely.

Jane Ballard (34:45.108)
And I'm trying, I'm trying and I will continue to try to do things differently and to allow people to be where they are and to feel what they're feeling. And for me to show up as my authentic self and give myself permission to be seen, again, your word understood, to be seen and to take up space and to be who I am authentically and to express myself.

Amanda (35:05.524)
and

Jane Ballard (35:15.362)
without this unnecessary filter. Like, yes, we do have to.

be conscious of others and how we behave. That's just part of being a good human, but we don't have to restrain ourselves and really filter ourselves. It's almost like, again, with balance, my filter was way too thick. And it's like, yeah, I need to be considerate of others, but I don't have to just withhold everything to keep myself safe.

Amanda (35:32.618)
Mm-hmm.

Amanda (35:44.63)
Mm-hmm.

Amanda (35:52.351)
Yeah, absolutely.

Jane Ballard (35:53.196)
then I feel disconnected and like people don't know me and that doesn't work.

Amanda (35:58.101)
Yeah, for sure. I feel like one thing that is helpful for me in this type of situation that we're kind of talking about here is whenever someone does, let's say, in my life, say my husband comes home and he's in a bad mood for whatever reason, 10 years ago, my reaction would have been, I mean, subconsciously completely, but to go into like, what did I do wrong?

How can I improve his mood, all the things. And so now these more recently, what I do is, and I don't really know when I started doing this or how I started doing this, but I can physically see myself doing it and remember doing it where I, the person will walk in the kitchen and I'll notice they will physically be in a bad mood, whether it's my husband or kids or whatever.

And so I just kind of acknowledge in my head like, okay, they're in a bad mood and you know, we carry on and that it doesn't have any kind of, I just keep being me, keep showing up as myself and acknowledge their mood, not out, out, sat, not outwardly because yeah, cause that would just piss the person off probably, but just acknowledge it to myself and then move along.

Jane Ballard (37:02.509)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (37:08.845)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (37:13.186)
Not out loud.

Jane Ballard (37:23.416)
think the acknowledging piece is super important because when you do that, you are not resisting it. You're allowing it to be as it is. And when we try to control it, we're resisting it and we're not allowing it to be. saying, uh-oh, I need to change this mood stat.

Amanda (37:31.275)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Amanda (37:43.167)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jane Ballard (37:44.462)
And instead you're saying like, no, I'm going to allow it to be and continue to move forward. And if they need me, they'll let me know.

Amanda (37:52.417)
Absolutely. I feel like we have come up with some really great words since we've been on here. We've one word awake. We talked about earlier. Balance, understand, attunement, allow, ease. Like allow is such a good word to just, it goes along with just be, you know, like allow, allow things to just be. And in our

Jane Ballard (38:02.317)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (38:09.794)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (38:19.106)
Yes.

Amanda (38:22.173)
striving, we're really not allowing, I don't think. I think we already, like whatever is going to happen is going to happen. And you know, our soul knows what we want and what we hope for and all the things we're trying to manifest or whatever it is. And so sometimes we need to just allow. And that doesn't mean be, it doesn't mean be lazy. It just means

Jane Ballard (38:46.69)
Yeah.

Amanda (38:51.553)
Take action calmly and allow.

Jane Ballard (38:52.983)
Yeah.

allow but when we become super attached to something working out a certain way rather than just doing what is ours to do and then allowing events to unfold we create a lot of anxiety and distress in our bodies.

Amanda (39:10.549)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I guess adding in, not I guess, but for sure, like adding in trust. I trust the outcome, even if that doesn't look like how I think it's gonna look or how I hope it's gonna look. I trust the outcome itself, like whatever that looks like. I trust that that is gonna be exactly how it's supposed to be.

Jane Ballard (39:35.064)
Yeah. Yeah, I like that. It's like we tell ourselves these worst case scenarios. And for me, when I'm making a decision and I'm keep having this worst case scenario thought come up, sometimes it helps just to stop and say, okay, let's say the worst case scenario happens. If this happens and you know, well,

Not that, but if this happens, are you still willing to take this step or do this thing knowing that this is a possibility that really could happen? And if that happened, would you regret having done it? And usually it's like, no, I'm willing to accept that that's a possibility. And once I'm willing to accept that it's a possibility and I still want to move forward with the thing, then there's some ease and some peace there and some letting go.

Like think a great example of that in my life is the the Bali retreat. I led this year with you in April and I had so much fear and distress about what if I put this out here and market this retreat and nobody signs up or it doesn't fill and I have to cancel it. And it's like, you know what?

I am willing to accept that that's a possibility. I want to do this bad enough that I'm willing to accept that that could happen. And if it does, I'll figure it out.

Amanda (41:13.695)
Yeah, I think that is a very common problem, the mindset, the fear.

That's a very common factor for retreat leaders, all of us, because it is terrifying, especially in the beginning when you first start doing retreats, it's terrifying, especially once you get really into it and you're like a few months out from the retreat. It's terrifying to think that you have put yourself out there in this way and that has so many different angles to it.

Jane Ballard (41:26.647)
Yes.

Amanda (41:50.621)
I mean, the angle of, you know, really putting yourself out there on for everyone to see you market this thing and then financially and all the things. And so this fear of it.

Jane Ballard (42:00.566)
Yeah. And even just investing all the time and energy into something that then maybe wouldn't happen.

Amanda (42:09.129)
Yeah. And when you think about it, how you just said, like, are you willing to accept that that could happen? And is it still worth it to do it, to move forward with this? And so when you're when we're willing to look at it like that, I love that, by the way, when we're willing to look at it like that, it allows us to also see that.

Jane Ballard (42:19.79)
Mm-hmm.

Amanda (42:33.153)
God forbid nobody signs up. Hell, can still go to Bali or I can still go to Costa Rica and have a damn good time with even if it's just myself, which probably wouldn't happen, but with one or two girls or whatever ends up happening is 100 % how it's supposed to be. It's like the yoga teacher training I did. This gal that runs the yoga teacher training, she usually in her

Jane Ballard (42:42.827)
Exactly.

Amanda (43:02.497)
training group, she has quite a few people. In my group, it just happened that I was the only one who signed up. So it was just me and her completely beneficial experience for everyone involved, both her and me. But, and I think that it was, know without a doubt, it was supposed to be that way. I had so much healing that came from those months that I was working with her, you know?

Jane Ballard (43:14.69)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (43:26.606)
Yeah. And that was pre-Sopriety, right? Yeah.

Amanda (43:31.539)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so just thinking about, know, whatever the thing is, especially not especially for us, it's retreats, you know, like even if there is a time where we are end up on a retreat with two people, like there is a reason like trusting that trusting the outcome, you know.

Jane Ballard (43:54.102)
Yeah, trusting the outcome and that whatever it is you can deal with it. And the other thing I think that for me goes along with that is redefining the way I view failure. You know, like if that did happen, let's say the retreat didn't fill up or nobody signed up, that's not necessarily a failure. That is an opportunity to learn and then readjust.

Amanda (43:58.187)
Mm-hmm.

Amanda (44:07.361)
you

Jane Ballard (44:23.212)
You know, maybe that means, okay, my marketing strategy failed, so I'm going to postpone and do it the next year and maybe hire a consultant to help me market it or, you know, whatever. But it's like, we don't always succeed on the first attempt. Sometimes we've got to try over and over again. And really, maybe it's only a failure when you stop trying.

Amanda (44:31.403)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Amanda (44:51.905)
Yeah, absolutely. It's what you always say. Just you have to begin again. as long as you begin again and I mean, maybe there is a situation or the thing for someone else is whatever it is. And maybe they figure out that that's not actually what they wanted after all, you know?

Jane Ballard (44:58.722)
Begin again, yes.

Jane Ballard (45:15.466)
Exactly. Yeah. Maybe they didn't give up. Maybe they said, you know what, this Bolly retreat thing, it's too much. I don't want to, I think that I, you know, I want to adjust and do something more local or do a virtual group or something like that. You know, that's, that's a really good point. Just because you change your goal doesn't necessarily mean you gave up. just adjusted based on data that you've collected.

Amanda (45:30.368)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Amanda (45:43.776)
Yeah, for sure. I think that's one thing that I really was able to hone in on and learn in 2024 and really internalize is that it's okay to change your mind. Like I used to feel so bad if I had a plan to do something and I could, I decided that it wasn't a good fit for me, but for good reasons, it's not just like you're backing out for because you just don't want to do it.

Jane Ballard (46:12.11)
because you don't feel like it, yeah.

Amanda (46:14.165)
But if you feel in your soul like something is not for you, even if everybody's gonna be mad at you, then trust your body, trust yourself to give you the answers that you need, you know?

Jane Ballard (46:27.288)
Well, and I think that comes back also to you are not responsible for preventing those others from feeling disappointed that you're no longer participating. You can show them empathy and kindness and, you know, let them know that you are sorry that they're disappointed or you're sorry that you're, I don't know, I don't even know if you owe an apology, but you can show empathy, but you're...

Amanda (46:41.291)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (46:53.696)
you're not responsible for preventing them from being disappointed. really, even if they feel disappointed, hopefully they still understand and respect your reasoning.

Amanda (47:07.425)
Mm hmm. Yeah, I had an experience along these lines earlier this year and I've had to work through it a lot throughout the year. And I guess the main thing that I've kind of come to a realization of is no matter what, if there's something in you,

that tells you that it's not for you and you've spent some time with it and investigated it and that is the salute, that is what you've come to the conclusion of is that, you know, it's not for you and you've released that from your life. Whatever the outcome, it's okay. You know, even if the person stays mad at you or they never apologize themselves, whatever the thing is, you know, it's okay to just...

Jane Ballard (48:04.012)
Okay. Let it be.

Amanda (48:05.57)
You know, even just let it be, let it go.

Jane Ballard (48:09.826)
Yes. Yeah.

Amanda (48:11.617)
That is a place where we can quit striving. We don't have to keep trying for a forgiveness or another apology or to hear their perspective or to talk about it. We know our truth and that's good enough.

Jane Ballard (48:27.01)
Yes, it's like we are only responsible for ourselves and we do really need to allow people space to have emotional responses to us. A great example of this is my husband, God bless him. He tries very hard to keep me from having negative emotions in response to his behaviors. But sometimes

Amanda (48:32.501)
Yeah.

Amanda (48:38.539)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Amanda (48:49.857)
Thank

Jane Ballard (48:56.992)
I don't want him to not do the behavior. I just want to be able to have my response and him to be like, I see you. I know you're stressed. I'm sorry. And then go do the thing. Like this is a great example is, so when our kids were really little, I used to get super stressed, not super stressed, not even super stressed, but to him, it probably seemed super stressed. In my family though, we always just said what we were feeling and then

Amanda (49:01.472)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (49:27.79)
that was, we still moved on. But I don't think his family was like that. So he would be going out with his friends and I'd be like, you know, let's say I was seven months pregnant and I had a 18 month old. And I'm like, are you, are you leaving already? Can you just help me get her down first or, you know, something like that.

Amanda (49:30.027)
Mm-hmm.

Amanda (49:41.825)
Thank

Amanda (49:51.197)
huh.

Jane Ballard (49:52.544)
And to him, he interpreted that to mean, I don't want you to go out with your friends anymore. And so he would quit going out with his friends. And I'm like, why are you going out with your friends anymore? And he's like, well, it stresses you out. I'm like, yeah, who cares? I can handle my stress. I just want to be able to verbalize it. I just want to be authentic and sharing like, my gosh, I'm stressed. You're leaving. my God.

Amanda (50:09.535)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jane Ballard (50:21.89)
but he couldn't tolerate that.

And really, I want him to tolerate it and I want him to go out with his friends and I want him to say, I'm sorry you're stressed or too bad, I'm going anyway, which is probably what my family of origin would have done, you know? But then if he responds to my stress by stopping doing the thing, then that communicates to me that...

Amanda (50:30.699)
Mm-hmm.

Amanda (50:37.717)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (50:51.518)
I can't feel emotion or else he's going to take it upon himself to do things like that to fix it. And then it shuts me down. And then we're just robots.

Amanda (50:59.349)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely easy to become robots.

Jane Ballard (51:07.254)
Yeah. So anyway, that was a long-winded way of talking about carrying other people's feelings, but...

Amanda (51:14.717)
No, I, that's all good stuff for sure. And you know, it's easy to, I think maybe the most, the easiest thing to do is whenever someone is feeling, expresses to you that they're, if you were to change what you're doing, that it would make them feel better. Like the easy thing to do is to just do what they're, do it, you know?

Jane Ballard (51:43.627)
Yeah.

Amanda (51:44.021)
But the healthy thing to do is to do what you intended to do and love your people still, but just carry on and allow you to be uncomfortable or whatever, you know?

Jane Ballard (51:56.44)
Like, it.

Jane Ballard (52:01.952)
Yeah. Well, and I didn't even want him to not go. But I see what you're saying in this point. In this case, it's like you can respectfully decline and allow the person to feel their feelings. I think the problem is a lot of times people don't directly ask for what they want. They have an emotional display and they want you to interpret that and respond accordingly.

that didn't work well either.

Amanda (52:29.921)
Yeah, relationships are tough. I feel like one thing I struggle with in relationships, almost all of them is like, I think I know what the other person's thinking all the time. And so I spend a lot of time during communication thinking about what you're thinking instead of just like listening and 90 % of the time, yeah, and 90 % of the time like,

Jane Ballard (52:32.184)
They're tough. Yeah.

Jane Ballard (52:51.244)
and then asking a clarifying question if you need to.

Amanda (52:58.997)
We don't know what the other person's thinking. We're not that smart, you know?

Jane Ballard (53:03.016)
and it's not our job to figure it out. If we want to know, we can ask and they can tell us if they want to. But a lot of times when we try to figure it out, we're then going to misinterpret things.

Amanda (53:05.505)
Mm.

Amanda (53:14.869)
Yeah, yeah. I think just that reminder to ourselves whenever we are trying to figure out what other people are saying, the reminder to ourselves that it isn't our job to know what they're thinking. Like that's not our business. Let's just focus on this verbal communication.

Jane Ballard (53:27.274)
No.

Jane Ballard (53:30.936)
Direct communication, yeah. So we had talked about spending some time in this episode talking about family of origin dynamics that kind of come up as you have more and more time alcohol-free. What are your thoughts about, why don't we make that a part two? Because we've had a lot of conversation in this episode and maybe that's a part two, we could do a whole episode on that.

Amanda (53:32.99)
Mm-hmm, absolutely.

Amanda (53:46.315)
Hmm?

Amanda (53:51.71)
Yeah.

Amanda (54:00.041)
Yeah, let's do it.

Jane Ballard (54:01.39)
Okay. Well, everyone, thank you so much for listening to this episode and to our musings on 2024. Please, like we said, reach out, send us your questions or let me know if you have a number. Amanda will send you your word and a picture of your card. And don't forget to follow the podcast.

give us a rating or review, we would be eternally grateful.

Amanda (54:33.119)
Yes, please review us and follow our podcasts. I hope everyone has a wonderful new year.

Jane Ballard (54:35.47)
Yes. Yes. Yes. Happy New Year, guys.