S1 E9 Myths, Truths and Fascinating Facts About Shamanism with Laura Martinez, LPC

Amanda (00:01.5)
All right, guys, well today we are interviewing Laura Martinez. Laura is a therapist, spiritual healer, author, speaker, and a meditation guide, which is actually how I met Laura. I went, have gone to some of her meditations and they're wonderful, and I actually get to go to one tonight. So super excited about that. Do you mind just giving us a little history about you, Laura?

Laura Martinez (00:30.178)
Yeah, yeah, and so nice to be here. Thank you so much for having me on I'm so stoked about your podcast and the message that you guys have sent out I've listened to some of your podcast and it just is so great. So I'm so grateful to be here. Yeah. Yeah Thank you So, oh, yeah, oh I was yeah, no I was gonna say you pretty much covered everything about me there but

Jane Ballard (00:43.758)
Aw, thank you. I'm so happy you're here.

Amanda (00:47.6)
Awesome. So one of the, you go ahead.

Amanda (00:56.498)
Okay.

Laura Martinez (00:57.278)
Yeah, I'm in Fort Worth and I have my private practice and I love meeting clients individually, but I also love and adore my meditation group that I run on Fridays and I also host retreats and workshops. So that's kind of a little bit of the work I do.

Amanda (01:17.06)
Yes, I love following you on Instagram and like I just I'm so drawn to what you have going on and like it's not like I feel like I don't know a lot about what you have going on but it's definitely very appealing to me. So I know in a way some of your greatest teachings came from your grandmother and I read like about rituals, cleanings, and energy work so I just wanted to know if you could tell us a little bit about that.

Jane Ballard (01:17.55)
That's awesome.

Laura Martinez (01:45.362)
Yeah, so it's pretty cool because the very first time I did shamanic work, I was about 19 years old and I was in Costa Rica and just quit. Incidentally, I went to a couple that did shamanic work and I didn't, I think it was, I thought it was just going to be a fun adventure. I didn't really take too much seriousness to it.

And the result of that was incredible and just shifted my whole life. And I kept going back to for more training and I kept getting trained by this couple, who did not charge me, by the way, they just wanted to share their gifts. So I was just bringing them groceries and just providing them as much as I could, because I felt like there had to be some energy exchange there. So I fast forward, I started working at a treatment facility in South Texas and

I started bringing these shamanic practices into the work that I was doing with the clients. And the result of doing that work was just, I was in awe at how much transformation was happening with the shamanic work. And this was a substance abuse treatment center. So along with that work, and then they all had their therapist. And then the work that I was really doing was the neuroscience work with them. So

with when all of those different modalities converged, they were just expressing themselves in a whole different way. So I started taking notice that the shamanic work was really the most impactful thing that they were doing with me and my work. And they would put it on their exit interviews too. So then people that were working there were asking me, what are you doing with the clients? What is the shamanic work they're talking about? And so

Amanda (03:36.031)
Thank you.

Laura Martinez (03:38.99)
to me that was very special. And so, you know, fast forward a couple years into treatment, into working in treatment, my grandma, I was over at my grandma's house who lives next to the treatment center, not right next door, but across the bridge from the treatment center. And she asked me, like, what do you do at your work? And you know, sometimes I placate people and just kind of give them the common answer. Jane, you probably know this as a therapist. You're like, well, I'm just the...

I'm just a therapist, you know, I just, yeah, that's it. Yeah, yeah. And Amanda, you probably say I'm a recovery coach, but you're not really getting into the meat of what you do. But for some reason, something inspired me to tell her the full loaded answer and the shamanism and the ceremonies and rituals. And she got teary eyed. And she said, my mom, your great grandma used to do these practices, exactly what you're doing.

Jane Ballard (04:07.777)
Yeah, I work with people on depression and anxiety, you know.

Amanda (04:07.92)
No.

Laura Martinez (04:37.086)
And I just had full on goosebumps and she... Yeah, and I couldn't believe it. I had never known this. And she, my grandma told me, when I was a little girl, I remember people would knock on our door in the middle of the night and my mom would bundle me up and take me out and we would do practices in the caves and we would have to do it hush because she would be persecuted for doing this type of work. Yeah.

Jane Ballard (04:40.07)
I just got goosebumps when you told me that.

Laura Martinez (05:06.742)
And my grandma was, I'm gonna get, I always get emotional. I've said this story so many times, but my grandma said, wow, it must be, you know, it must be in your blood. It's in your blood. And it makes me emotional because I don't have to hide about the work that I do. Like I can be on podcasts talking about this out loud and my ancestors did not get that privilege. Yeah.

Jane Ballard (05:29.524)
us.

Jane Ballard (05:34.662)
Can you share a little bit about what is the cultural background where kind of your grandmother or your great-grandmother was practicing and how shamanism is tied to that particular culture?

Laura Martinez (05:47.286)
Yeah, so my culture is I'm Mexican American and she was practicing this actually in a little town called Mexiquito and so Little Mexico. Little Mexico and she was known for being a, you know, in Spanish we call it a curandera and basically what that is it's a witch doctor. And she had her herbs and she had her.

Jane Ballard (05:57.594)
Little Mexico.

Jane Ballard (06:06.671)
Yes.

Amanda (06:11.722)
Thank you.

Laura Martinez (06:16.502)
different rituals. And even when I was a kid, you know, being a Mexican American, if I got sick, my mom would do the egg. And I don't know if y'all know that practice, but you basically get a egg and you pray over the person who's sick and you're rubbing the egg. And you know, some people do the signs of the cross on you. And then you break that egg open in a cup and it's supposed to hold all the energy of your illness in the egg.

Jane Ballard (06:25.997)
Oh.

Laura Martinez (06:46.222)
And also, it.

Jane Ballard (06:46.662)
It just kind of absorbs the toxins or the whatever is causing the illness.

Laura Martinez (06:51.93)
Exactly, exactly. And any bad energy that anybody has placed on you. So, you know, if somebody sees my hair and they're like, oh my gosh, I love her hair. I want her hair. That's in Mexico, that's called ojo. You know, giving somebody ojo, giving somebody the I, like I want her hair. And so the energy of that jealousy gets stuck on you. So the egg is supposed to remove that energy from you. Yeah. I know somebody.

Jane Ballard (07:08.578)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (07:19.482)
That's fascinating.

Laura Martinez (07:20.854)
different practices. So I grew up with some of these practices, but I never knew the extent of my bloodline and it being so close into doing these healing ceremonies and rituals.

Amanda (07:33.204)
So if you had to describe like shamanism and like what the true definition, like I looked it up online last night, but I'm curious like what if you, for someone that's never heard of shamanism, what would you tell them or how would you explain it?

Laura Martinez (07:49.234)
That's a great question and I love this question because there's a lot of misinterpretation of what shamanism is. Shamanism is not a religion, it's not even a spirituality, it's more of a modality of thinking or practice. And what that modality is, is it's the belief that a human being can heal themselves. And we can do that with everything that was given to us on our body, our breath.

the way that we hold ourselves, the energy of our aura. It's also using nature and animals and spirit guides and things that we believe in like our ancestors to heal us. So it gives us the power back of knowing that we have the intuition and we have the ability to heal ourselves. So when I work with a client, I see us as equals.

I'm some therapists, the power dynamic, they believe they're above the client and need to, the client needs to listen to them or, you know, and me, I'm helping the client connect to themselves because they are their best healer. Yes, I'm well educated and I know these different modalities that can help them.

But ultimately that person is the wisest in the session. They know what's best for them if they connect to their divine self.

Jane Ballard (09:17.186)
It sounds very similar to social work values. I'm a licensed clinical social worker and some of our core values are self-determination and the client is the expert. And so it sounds like you're kind of coming alongside clients and helping them uncover what they already have within them to heal themselves.

Laura Martinez (09:37.042)
Right, yeah, I wanna work myself out of a job. I don't want a client to be warehoused and to be dependent on me for four or five years. I don't want that at all. I want them to be able to be so empowered that they know that they can do this with the resources around them. And if they need to come back and do some therapy, that's great too, but therapy should never be about dependency, it should be about empowerment.

Jane Ballard (10:01.75)
Right. Kind of helping people learn the tools to heal themselves and continue to address struggles, new struggles that come up in life, you know, and if they've worked with you, then they have those tools. Hey puppy. So cute. No, it's okay. Molly by a Cavapoo may come in a minute. So.

Laura Martinez (10:17.03)
Right. That's my puppy. He's right there. He's a little chihuahua, so he becomes a guard dog. Sorry about that.

Amanda (10:24.099)
So.

Amanda (10:27.9)
I'm curious, and this may be totally out of your wheelhouse and just tell me if it is, but I've always been really curious about plant medicine. Do you work with psychoactive plants or is there anything that you can speak to on that?

Laura Martinez (10:44.546)
Absolutely. So I just recently had a cacao ceremony with a group of clients and so that is a plant medicine and that is actually a heart opener. We are going to have me, Dr. Ramina and Merciful Healing are going to pair together and we're going to do a kava, a kava retreat and a kana retreat and kana is also a root. So these are all plant medicines that help awaken us in different ways.

Right now, as far as psychedelics go, they are in the process of legislation of getting legalized. So I am very interested in becoming psychedelic assisted trained in therapy. And actually, it's so funny that you asked that because yesterday I had lunch with one of my girlfriends, her name is Faith and she does incredible work and she actually isn't a psychedelic assisted therapist.

and we were talking about the different avenues for that. So I am getting, hopefully soon we'll be getting trained in that.

Amanda (11:48.032)
That'll be so cool.

Jane Ballard (11:48.514)
Are you, yeah. Do you, I guess the only legal psychedelic-like modality we have here in Texas right now is ketamine. Do you do anything with ketamine or are you, what are your thoughts about that?

Laura Martinez (11:50.002)
Mm-hmm, I'm excited.

Laura Martinez (12:07.222)
You know, I don't personally administer ketamine because I'm not licensed for it. There are actually doctors that I have met here in Fort Worth. There's a group of us that meet and are psychedelic curious about the healing community, but wanna do it in a very ethical way and definitely wanna hold it as a sacred platform to use. And so I know that is happening here in Fort Worth. I do have some clients.

Jane Ballard (12:13.491)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (12:27.366)
right.

Laura Martinez (12:37.054)
that are undergoing ketamine treatment. And just to be completely honest, what I've seen in my experience with clients, it's either extremely helpful and they love it, or they didn't like it at all. So.

Jane Ballard (12:51.97)
I've seen that with my clients as well. Some who have responded really well and gotten relief from depression and some other symptoms, and then some that are kind of like, eh, didn't really do much.

Laura Martinez (13:03.506)
Yeah, yeah, same here. That's, I've never talked to anybody else about it. So that's very curious that we're seeing the same thing, but yeah, so maybe, you know, for me, knowing psychedelics, maybe something a little bit more gentle in the middle might be helpful, you know? So hopefully, I know that MDMA is going to be something that hopefully will be legalized here soon to use with a doctor, right? And somebody...

Jane Ballard (13:10.572)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (13:19.7)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (13:28.588)
I think so.

Yes, I think for PTSD, the studies are looking really promising.

Laura Martinez (13:37.682)
Yeah, it is. It is very promising.

Amanda (13:40.604)
Isn't MDMA the drug that was used by teenagers like ecstasy? Isn't that crazy?

Jane Ballard (13:46.51)
That's ecstasy, huh?

Laura Martinez (13:49.754)
It is, it is. It's so funny because I was looking at some of the research on it and there's different research done on people that have done it in a more of a experimental platform, you know, and you know, party platform versus a therapeutic platform. And this always goes back to intentionality of using substances, right? Like our intentions really do set the stage for how you are going to respond to a substance. So...

Jane Ballard (14:18.406)
Mm-hmm.

Laura Martinez (14:19.302)
If your intention is to go, you know, have your serotonin completely blasted in your brain so you can have this altered experience in a party setting versus I'm going to set my intention to heal and feel these different parts of myself that I've never been exposed to, you're probably going to get a different outcome.

Jane Ballard (14:38.518)
Right. I feel like there's a huge difference, especially for people who are alcohol-free or sober or in recovery. You know, it's a little bit controversial to use a psychedelic modality for healing, but I think it's so important to look at the difference between using it for recreational purposes and using it for healing.

you know, medical, psychiatric, spiritual purposes in a controlled setting with a professional guiding you through that experience.

Laura Martinez (15:10.542)
Absolutely, and everybody is different. I want to say that too. I would never sit here and say Everybody should do this because I yeah because I don't believe that and also the dosing is going to be completely different So, you know when you're using it as a party experience The dose is probably going to be much higher than if you're you know doing like a micro dose of any of these substances So absolutely, I agree with you. You know, we have to be careful

Jane Ballard (15:16.864)
Oh, for sure.

Jane Ballard (15:33.602)
Right.

Laura Martinez (15:38.198)
with certain substances and if people are already on a psychoactive drug, you know, or on an antipsychotic, they probably want to stay away from these certain modalities of healing.

Jane Ballard (15:43.663)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (15:49.686)
Right. And I think there are also certain diagnoses that are contraindicated for that type of treatment like bipolar disorder and disorders with psychosis.

Laura Martinez (16:00.338)
Yeah, yeah, that the psychosis and the negative symptoms with the psychosis actually does not do well with the psychedelics is what we've seen in research.

Jane Ballard (16:08.854)
Interesting. And just to clarify for our listeners, the negative symptoms are kind of more the symptoms of withdrawal and like catatonia. And can you explain that a little bit?

Amanda (16:12.709)
Thank you.

Laura Martinez (16:21.582)
Uh huh. Also hallucinations, whether it be auditory or visual, um, all of the things that create that schizophrenia, um, within that person. Um, so yeah, obviously with psychedelics, there is the ability to have hallucinations in some way. Um, and those are really big doses. Of course, we're not talking about the research dose of the, the microdosing, but

still we probably don't want to go down those brain avenues if they're already the negative symptoms are already present.

Amanda (16:56.724)
So going in a little bit of a different direction, I know that you've fused together neuroscience techniques, therapy and shamanism really beautifully. So I was just curious if you could tell us a little bit about what that looks like.

Laura Martinez (17:06.859)
Uh huh.

Laura Martinez (17:13.098)
Yeah, so I, so I merged the three of those and basically what it looks like is when a client comes to me, we're working on the mind, body and spirit of each, uh, in the person. And so whenever we are going down the neuroscience route, we're looking at cognitions, neural pathways that they've already, that have already been established, trauma, of course.

And whenever we do the shamanic route, we really are going into the subconscious or the psyche. And so I believe that a lot of our wounds are located in the subconscious mind. And so whenever we do talk therapy, you're more working on the conscious mind than the subconscious mind. Talk therapy, there's a time and place for that. Of course, processing through a situation is really good.

But what I feel is more impactful is going into that psychedelic, I mean, I'm sorry, the subconscious realm and going into that state where you can heal those wounds. And so usually with the neuroscience piece, what we're working on are finding belief systems, finding patterns that they do and being able to break those up and then going into the psyche or the subconscious mind to actually visit those places.

So I can give you an example, because I know that all sounds very general. So, um, I, okay, cool. I'm glad, because sometimes I say things like, especially on my podcast and I'm like, are people following what I'm saying? And so I like to give, like, am I just speaking in generalized terms? Yeah.

Jane Ballard (18:43.034)
It sounds fascinating.

Yeah.

Amanda (18:52.799)
Huh.

Jane Ballard (18:55.33)
Well, and I love.

I like the fact that it sounds like it's possible to access the subconscious without a substance. And I think a lot of times people use substances because they want to kind of turn off their conscious like doing self-brain and get into that altered state. And if there's another way to access an altered state that doesn't have the negative consequences of alcohol or other substances, which probably isn't actually.

Laura Martinez (19:23.522)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (19:25.642)
accurately accessing the subconscious anyway. I think that could be really appealing for people who are on the path of sobriety or working on other types of healing.

Amanda (19:35.835)
Yeah.

Laura Martinez (19:36.086)
You're absolutely right. Especially when I was working in treatment, the clients are used to using substances to numb out or to go into these altered states of reality, really. And whenever we would do the shamanic work with the drum and that theta brainwave is getting set off, they realize, oh my gosh, I just had a psychedelic experience without using any sort of substance. And they were so excited about it.

Jane Ballard (20:04.774)
That's awesome.

Amanda (20:05.728)
Amazing. And I love that you're dealing with the subconscious because like for me in my life, there's been so many different things that have happened that when I really started my recovery journey. I felt like something was wrong with me at my core and really, I think it was just a whole lot of negative subconscious beliefs. And so I think, especially for someone that is

considering an alcohol-free lifestyle or a substance-free lifestyle, this could be so powerful.

Laura Martinez (20:41.69)
Oh, absolutely. Because I feel like we need that ability to go into altered states of reality to do our healing sometimes. Because sometimes people are disconnected from the healing that they need to do because for so long we've had to compartmentalize that trauma and put it away from us so we could just exist and live our life, right? And the problem with doing that, with compartmentalizing, and I know that

it's a good tool in the moment because we have to live our life. We can't be debilitated by trauma. But the problem with doing that is when I compartmentalize my trauma for so long and I put it on the shelf, it no longer belongs to me anymore. At least that's the belief I have is like, oh, that little girl who went through that trauma, I don't even associate with her. Like I don't even know who that is. And so, mm-hmm.

Amanda (21:33.268)
Wow, I can so relate with that a million percent. Like I've never heard someone say it like that, but that's spot on for sure. Well, I'm curious to hear what your example is.

Jane Ballard (21:34.502)
So this disintegration.

Laura Martinez (21:45.526)
Oh yeah, thanks for bringing me back to that. So basically the example would be I had a client that I was working with and she was so defended against everything. Like she was just so rigid and the thing is she didn't know it. I mean she would even, she would come into my office at the time and she would sit down and say hello, how are you? And just be so defended and not warm and gushy, you know? And so...

we started working on that and it started to become a barrier in her marriage with her husband because she was just building these walls around her and she didn't know it. But what she did know was her cognition was, I cannot trust people and I am not safe. And so she was able to identify these two cognitions that were creating barriers. So after we identified these belief systems.

And we did all the work. We knew where they came from. They came from mom and dad. They came from her childhood and never being heard and never feeling safe. And we did all that processing and all that work. So I asked her at one of our, one of our sessions, and this wasn't like our first or second session. It's probably like session six, you know, once we've built this trust in her core. I said, do you want to go inward and work on those walls? And she was like, what do you mean? And I said,

do you want to go into an altered state of reality and see the walls and bring the walls down? And she said, I'm so ready to do that. Laura, I don't want to do this. I don't, I'm ruining my marriage. I don't want to do this anymore. So we went into an altered state with my drum and, you know, there's a whole process, the meditation and getting her into alpha and then in the brain, and then getting her into theta with the drum. So once we were there, I had her go into a

safe place and I saw her I had her see the walls around her and she was describing she said I have these brick walls I have three layers of brick walls around me and I said how do you feel she said I feel very small like it looks like I'm just a tiny person inside the walls I said can you see the top of the wall she said I can't see the top of the wall she said but there's no brick or mortar or anything they're just solid walls

Laura Martinez (24:04.546)
and they're all around me. And I said, do you feel like you can break them down? And she said, yeah, I actually do. And she said, I don't even need to like have an instrument. I just feel like my body can go through these walls. So she started to go through the walls and she said, there's bricks falling around me, but I'm safe. I'm like in this orb or this bubble where I'm safe. But like, it's almost like the Sonic the Hedgehog, you know, coming through the walls.

Amanda (24:31.35)
Mm-hmm.

Laura Martinez (24:33.582)
And so she saw herself do that. And after she broke through, she started crying. And I said, what do you feel? And she said, oh my God, I feel relief. And I feel like my body is able to relax for the first time. And she visualized herself doing an angel in the field, like a snow angel, but like in like a field of daffodils. And she said, oh my gosh. And then during the visualization, she said, there's people coming.

And I said, okay, who are these people? You know, get up and see. And she said, there's my husband and my mom who's passed. And I said, how do you feel about them seeing you do this? She says, I feel some shame. And I said, okay, how do you wanna address this right now? And she says, I wanna get up and tell them to fuck off. I'm sorry if I'm not supposed to curse. And I said, okay, do it.

Amanda (25:27.361)
No, you're good. You're good.

Jane Ballard (25:27.506)
Oh no, that's great.

Laura Martinez (25:32.034)
So she did it and then she started just laughing uncontrollably. And she got out of the trance just to kind of fast forward. She got out of the trance and she looked differently. I mean her face was like soft. She looked soft. Her shoulders were softened and she laughed and said I'm going to have to say sorry to my husband later for telling him. And

Jane Ballard (25:56.751)
Huh!

Laura Martinez (25:57.562)
I said, do you think you'll be able to share this with him? And she said, I absolutely think I can, and I think he'll completely get it. So we continued to see each other and those walls were gone. I mean, she completely, and if they did start to come up, she would identify, oh, there's the walls, I need to drop them down, right? But sometimes the wall can be there to protect us too. But more than likely, we don't need those walls around us all the time, yeah. Exactly.

Jane Ballard (26:22.022)
Mm-mm. We at least need a gate in the wall. Ha ha ha. Yes!

Laura Martinez (26:26.178)
till we can get in right or out. So that's kind of just an experience that I've had with merging the neuroscience piece and the shamanistic piece.

Jane Ballard (26:36.51)
Yes. And it's fascinating because she subconsciously built those walls to protect her, but they were actually making her life small and making her feel small and preventing her from being able to connect with people in a positive or a distressing way.

Laura Martinez (26:55.006)
Absolutely. And the thing about this woman in particular is she said she had such a big, intense, beautiful personality that she didn't need to be small. I mean, she's one of these people that are like, this person is meant to be a big person in the world. So it was just, she was creating a lot of resentment because of those walls.

Jane Ballard (27:17.486)
Yeah, yeah. Can you share a little bit about the alpha and the theta that you spoke about, like the drum, and kind of getting her into those states of consciousness?

Laura Martinez (27:29.438)
Yeah, absolutely. So our brain has different brainwaves. And whenever we hear sound, our brain tends to pair with that brainwave. That's why whenever we listen to binaural beats or frequencies, it can be really powerful for our brain. So when you are about to go into a meditative state, or when you're about to go into sleep, you go into the alpha brainwave form. When I lead meditations, I have my

my voice is programmed to be into the alpha. It's just for it with practice. And whenever you go into alpha, it's that dreamy state, but that's the state that we really can do a lot of manifestation work. If anybody manifests, that's a really good, powerful state to do it because you're in between the awake state and the dream state. So when we go into a trance, we wanna start off with getting them into alpha.

Before alpha is beta and beta is concentrating. So right now, if we were to put neural caps on all three of us, because we're highly focused and we're talking and we're engaging in a conversation, we're probably in beta right now. So beta is when we're focused and we're concentrating. High beta is whenever we have an actual task. Like if I had a puzzle to solve and somebody was...

timing me, I would go into high beta because all of my resources would be going into solving whatever that puzzle was. We go into high beta even more when there's a prize with that puzzle. So like, or I'm going to give you $2,000 if you solve this Rubik's cube, right? So I'm like, my brain is going into high beta right away and I'm ignoring everything else. I'm ignoring my digestive system, all the other processes of my body, right? So there's high beta, alpha, and then alpha.

Jane Ballard (29:08.032)
Yeah.

Amanda (29:10.097)
No.

Laura Martinez (29:22.866)
after alpha is theta and theta is whenever we're in REM sleep and we're dreaming. But fascinating enough, it's also whenever an artist is creating their art form. So they're in theta or a singer is singing or somebody is creating. They're also in this highly creative state of mind with being awake at the same time.

Jane Ballard (29:47.478)
Is that similar to the flow state that you'll hear people speak about where they lose their concept of time and they're just kind of totally present doing their thing? Okay.

Laura Martinez (29:55.454)
Yes, yes. And if you have ever met anybody who devotes a lot of their life to meditation, and they're meditating a lot, they're usually walking around in the theta. And these people that you meet, they feel very special. They feel like they're very spiritual, and they don't even have to say anything at all. And it's probably because they're in theta most of the time, which is possible. Yeah.

Amanda (30:22.58)
That sounds lovely. I want to, yes, me too. Yes.

Laura Martinez (30:24.334)
Yeah. It's just like complete peace, I think, with Theta. So that's where we want to be when we do shamanic journeys. And then there's gamma. And gamma is like high ecstasy. It's like if we're dancing and we're like, and you know, I would imagine ecstatic dances whenever people would be in gamma because you're just

Jane Ballard (30:24.486)
I know, I want to walk around in a dream state, just flowing through life.

Jane Ballard (30:33.166)
Yeah.

Amanda (30:33.253)
Yeah.

Laura Martinez (30:51.446)
you're losing track of time and space and you're just in a very high excitement, but not a stressful state, like more of a happy state, like a pleasurable state. Yeah, exactly.

Jane Ballard (30:59.706)
like a pleasurable state.

Jane Ballard (31:04.274)
And did these states correspond with different parts of the brain being activated, like the prefrontal cortex or the amygdala, or how does that work?

Laura Martinez (31:14.854)
Yeah, so you know the frontal cortex whenever it's fully engaged that would be like high beta or beta, right? and alpha would be more of Alpha is really that dreamy state. So actually the brain is starting to kind of shut down Whenever we dream, I mean, sorry whenever we sleep and we're not dreaming We go into alpha and that is also a restful sleep

Jane Ballard (31:21.574)
Bye.

Jane Ballard (31:32.14)
Mm-hmm.

Laura Martinez (31:42.41)
We want to have a restful sleep. We wanna have times in our nights where we're not dreaming so our brain can really restore. And new research has actually shown that our spinal fluid comes up and it actually washes our brain during that state. Oh, that's pretty cool. Yeah, our brain is cool. A good brainwash. Yeah.

Jane Ballard (31:58.767)
Wow.

Amanda (32:00.052)
amazing. Incredible. Yes, a great brain. Yes. That's, that's actually what I how I kind of, if I were to explain like recovery to someone, I would explain it as like a, in it, it may not be an alignment for some people. But for me, it's like a healthy brainwash, you know.

Jane Ballard (32:01.71)
A little brainwash. A good one. Ha ha ha.

Jane Ballard (32:19.415)
Yes, like a cleansing of these old ideas and ways and like opening up to new possibilities.

Amanda (32:21.408)
Mm-hmm.

Amanda (32:26.644)
Yeah.

Laura Martinez (32:27.118)
Yeah, I love that. That's cool. Yeah, but that's, you know, you laying down new neural pathways in your brain and feeling like there's so much more reward. It's more rewarding than the old pathways were.

Amanda (32:29.812)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (32:42.967)
Absolutely.

Amanda (32:43.152)
Yeah, absolutely. Do you have any other questions for Laura Jane?

Jane Ballard (32:48.782)
Yes, I am curious. So we live in Texas and there are a lot of people here who are practitioners of religion, especially Christianity, but other religions too, obviously. And sometimes it can feel threatening to hear the word shamanic or witch doctor or, you know, things like that.

Laura Martinez (32:53.143)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (33:10.438)
Can you kind of walk me through how you would respond to a client who has some deeply held religious convictions and feels threatened by participating in that?

Laura Martinez (33:22.83)
Absolutely. I actually do have quite a few clients like that from Texas and from the Bible Belt here. I want to say I love Christianity. I have nothing... I mean, shamanism can be in any spirituality, in any religion. So I think one of the first things I would say is actually if anything, the practice wants you to involve your God more, whatever...

Jane Ballard (33:30.958)
Yes.

Laura Martinez (33:52.414)
you know, if that's the Christian God or whether that's Buddhism or whatever your practices, it's about going to a higher power. I mean, that's a big part of it. So what I usually tell clients, and I always say that they never have to do the shamanic work if they, if they don't want to like very rare forms. I'm just stay in my therapist box and just stay there. Right. And I can totally do that effectively. And there's no issue until they get to know me.

Jane Ballard (33:58.668)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (34:15.905)
Yeah.

Laura Martinez (34:20.914)
right and gain some trust and they know like oh okay she's not a crazy voodoo lady or anything like that so no gosh no my work is always done in the light and love and i believe in god and i use that in my work but i do think that i one of my missions is to demystify what shamanism is because

Jane Ballard (34:27.374)
Yes, you're not going to be like praying to Satan or something.

Laura Martinez (34:49.278)
it does have such a weird rap, you know? Like, especially meeting people and me telling them what I actually do, they start to get a little weary. Like, what does that actually mean? And I'm like, oh no, I'm just taking people into altered states of reality. And we're going in and we're healing their deep subconscious wounds. That's basically what it is, but it's also enjoying nature and being one with your highest self and your higher power. So.

Jane Ballard (35:02.687)
Mm-hmm.

Laura Martinez (35:19.462)
It actually aligns quite lovely with Christianity.

Jane Ballard (35:23.33)
Yeah, that's what it sounds like. If people can just kind of be open, curious and playful and willing to incorporate new information and new ways of connecting with their higher power, I think that's key.

Amanda (35:23.496)
Yeah.

Laura Martinez (35:40.686)
Absolutely. It's like, it's this, there's two concepts coming to mind right now. And one of them is how limiting, how limited are you making your God where you think that your God is limited to this one way of thinking instead of maybe God can reach people in so many different ways, right? Nature, the sky, rain, you know, all those things. And then the other thing that's coming to mind too is

Jane Ballard (35:54.52)
Mmm.

Jane Ballard (35:58.666)
in so many ways. Absolutely.

Amanda (35:59.6)
Yes.

Laura Martinez (36:08.806)
I always tell people that they need to use your own discernment and your own intuition. And if something does not align with you, absolutely do not do it. Whenever we are, I always think there's like a, there's, God is inside of us and God is outside of us. So if God's inside of us, that internal God can tell us whether something feels right for us or not. You know? Yeah.

Jane Ballard (36:19.182)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (36:34.834)
Yes, and getting in touch with like, like being in that place where you can connect with and perceive communication from that, that God that is within you.

Amanda (36:35.808)
Absolutely.

Laura Martinez (36:45.758)
Exactly. And once you listen to that and you have that discernment, then you can decide whether that route is good for you, whatever the practice may be.

Amanda (36:55.94)
Yeah, I think the, I don't want to say the problem, but the issue I would say in the beginning, I'm going to speak from my personal experience. It is that even coming into like a yogi way of being, I was, I was, and I grew up in a church and a Baptist church, and I was terrified that I was like doing something that

Laura Martinez (37:17.358)
Mm-hmm.

Amanda (37:23.656)
But I think this all comes back to this feeling of just that at my core, I wasn't good. That's what I believed. And so I was just questioning all of the things. And so, you know, on this journey, I am capable of asking myself, does this feel okay for me? And then if there is, you know, someone practicing shamanism that

Maybe that person in particular might not line up for me, but maybe you do, you know, and just really trusting that intuition.

Laura Martinez (37:56.614)
Oh, a hundred percent yes, because there's some people that are doing this work that maybe don't align with you and maybe don't have your best interest. I know I've gotten a lot of clients too, where they've worked with practitioners in the shamanic field that have not been ethical. And so you do have to trust your highest judgment in your internal self to tell you whether you feel like this person is safe or not.

Jane Ballard (38:23.27)
Mm-hmm. Can you tell us, I have one last question. Can you tell us about the spirit animal thing? I love animals and I think that there's something so sweet about connecting with animals and something so healing about that. So I'm curious how that plays into shamanism.

Amanda (38:23.68)
Absolutely. All right.

Laura Martinez (38:44.306)
Yeah, so there's a belief that animals are actually angels, right, or spirit guides here on Earth. And whenever we connect to a spirit animal, there's the belief that there is this spirit of an animal with you, and it guides you. And at different parts of your life, these animals can help you in different ways. So I'll give you an example.

When I first did my shamanic training, the animal that came to me was a peacock. And the peacock, the whole symbolism of it is to be bold with who you are. Well, at the time, I was not bold with who I was. I kind of was a little bit more of a chameleon where I was able to kind of make myself be accepted with whoever I was. And I was very good at that because I'm very good at the human psyche. But what I realized is...

the authenticity of myself was being lost in that. And so the peacock really taught me to show my colors and be bold. And a part of that is doing this work out loud, right? And this is my true authentic self. It feels like it aligns with my highest self in so many ways. It almost feels like I'm meant to do this work here on earth. And so every animal has a different characteristic and a different lesson. So, you know, the Jaguar, for instance, would be being able to

go into the unknown and go into not knowing, into a different, maybe you have to step out of your comfort zone and go into the unknown, right? And the wolf would be the teacher or the pathfinder. And the wolf teaches us to share our medicine. And if you have a wolf as your spirit animal, it probably means you're a teacher or you're supposed to share your medicine in a way with others and telling them how to use that medicine.

Jane Ballard (40:37.638)
Hmm.

Laura Martinez (40:39.762)
So in a nutshell, what I do with clients, if I feel like it aligns with their treatment and everything is helping them find this spirit animal so they can learn to use it for them to heal or to go into the next phase of their journey.

Amanda (40:57.2)
incredible. Can we can we schedule an appointment? I love it. I love it. Thank you so much for joining us today Laura. Where can people find you on social media?

Jane Ballard (40:57.683)
Wow, I want to find my spirit animal. Yeah.

Laura Martinez (41:00.11)
Yeah, well we can go on a journey.

Laura Martinez (41:06.556)
Yeah

Thank you.

Laura Martinez (41:14.462)
You can find me on Instagram at DFW Spirituality. You can also find me on Facebook at DFW Spirituality. And you can listen to my podcast. Right now it's just on Apple, but I'm working on getting an RSS feed to have it on multiple platforms. But right now it is The Shamanic Therapist on Apple podcast. And then my website is thes

Jane Ballard (41:42.41)
Awesome. Well, it has just been such a treat getting to talk with you and get to know you today. So thank you so much.

Amanda (41:42.612)
Amazing.

Laura Martinez (41:49.638)
Yes, thank you guys so much. I appreciate you all having me on the show and for the amazing questions. Thank you.

Amanda (41:55.908)
Yeah, yeah, this is this is my favorite podcast for sure. So far.

Jane Ballard (41:56.692)
Yes.

for sure. Yes. All right. Thank you.

Laura Martinez (42:00.3)
Yay! Awesome. Thank you ladies.

Amanda (42:04.084)
Of course.