The Real Sober Stories with Kati

Jane Ballard (00:02.242)
Katie, thank you so much for being here today, for agreeing to share your story. This is so exciting.

onstead (00:05.397)
Yes.

onstead (00:09.228)
I'm excited too.

Jane Ballard (00:10.794)
Yes. So to go back a little bit, you and I met when we were 12 in Miss Gates class in junior high life management skills. Um, and we have been super close. I feel like we kind of grew up together, either me going to the lake with you on the weekends, or you staying with me when your parents went to the lake and. You know, fighting with my sisters with me and, uh, we, we have a, all the things. We have a long history.

onstead (00:17.793)
Yes.

onstead (00:27.052)
We did, for sure.

onstead (00:31.84)
Yes, which was awesome.

onstead (00:37.205)
all of the things.

I'm super close to your mother. She was like a second mother to me and I love her dearly.

Jane Ballard (00:40.586)
So I am just, yes, she loved you so much. And I love that you loved her. And now your mom is my surrogate mom, ma-ma.

onstead (00:52.68)
Yes, she adores you and your children too.

Jane Ballard (00:56.07)
No. Well, I asked you to come on here and share a little bit of your sober story. You actually quit drinking alcohol long before I did. But before we get into that, maybe just tell everyone a little bit about you, where you grew up, where you are now. Just help us give us a little context about your life.

onstead (01:03.808)
Yeah.

onstead (01:20.888)
Okay, sure. So, I grew up in Wichita Falls.

onstead (01:27.6)
Now my husband and I, we kind of moved, we moved to the Metroplex for 10 years, then his job brought us to the Lubbock area, so we've been out here since 2012. Doug and I have been, yes, we were just saying that. We're like, oh, we have been here over half our marriage. And so we have Hudson, I have a stepson who is 29.

Jane Ballard (01:38.978)
Gosh, has it been that long?

Jane Ballard (01:46.875)
Yeah.

onstead (01:54.78)
And then together we have Jackson who's about to be 21 in February. Cannon who's 17. He's a junior in high school. And then we have Clara Jane who is eight. She's about to be nine next week. Yes.

Jane Ballard (02:08.49)
Yes, we just celebrated her last weekend at the American Girl store and Barbie. Yes, she's precious.

onstead (02:14.2)
Barbie experience. She loved it. Yeah. So anyway, I'm a stay at home mom. And like I said, Doug and I, we met in Wichita Falls through a mutual friend. He's 10 years older, but we kind of knew all the same people and we've been married now. We just celebrated our 22nd wedding anniversary in September, so. Now.

Jane Ballard (02:40.962)
Gosh, how are we old enough that it's possible to have been married for 22 years?

onstead (02:43.532)
They say we last, I know, it makes me, I know, I know. And together 23, so that's just a little bit about me.

Jane Ballard (02:51.778)
That's awesome. Yeah. Okay, well, tell me a little bit about when alcohol came into your life, the early years of drinking. What did that look like? Not that you need to tell me because I remember it personally, but.

onstead (03:06.68)
Okay, um, oh yeah, I was about to say, which is ironic that we drank for the first time together, and yeah, and now 30 years later we're talking about sobriety. So, um,

Jane Ballard (03:15.274)
together.

Jane Ballard (03:23.062)
Seriously, our mothers would be so proud.

onstead (03:25.576)
Yeah. So, I mean, it started very young and I think that it was just something that everybody did, you know, and where we grew up, you know, everybody in high school, and I shouldn't say everybody, it seemed like everybody. Yes, it was very normal. And so that's just, you know, what we did, everybody drank. It...

Jane Ballard (03:41.982)
It seemed like everybody. It was very, it was part of the cultural norm for sure.

onstead (03:55.476)
was, you know, seemed fun at the time. And it was just definitely a part of just, you know, what we did for fun.

Jane Ballard (04:02.282)
It was like a coming of age part of growing up in small town, North Texas. We would drive out to Pawnee, the lake or somebody's land or yes, yes.

onstead (04:08.049)
Exactly, exactly.

Yes, the bonfires, somebody's land. Yeah, yeah. And I remember, you know, making sure I had enough of my allowance for a six pack and a pack of cigarettes. And that was, you know, what we did. And, yeah.

Jane Ballard (04:23.063)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (04:27.242)
That's hilarious. A pack of cigarettes was what, like two or $3? $2?

onstead (04:31.9)
I think it was close to three or four, it seems like. And then I think a six pack was probably $6. So I remember that, that's right. And so I remember $10, I think was what you needed. And then, of course, a couple of dollars for the Taco Bell late night. Yeah. Yes. And so we did that every Friday and Saturday night.

Jane Ballard (04:35.694)
Okay, and then.

Jane Ballard (04:40.91)
unless you got Natty light and then that was a little cheaper.

Jane Ballard (04:51.61)
Oh, absolutely. The late night was key. Or a water burger.

Jane Ballard (05:01.442)
Yes.

onstead (05:01.596)
Um, and you know, I mean, some of it was fun, you know, um, yeah, for sure.

Jane Ballard (05:06.57)
We had some fun times. I mean, it was not without consequence, but for the most part, we skated through that without any long-term consequences. Our mothers probably got some gray hairs.

onstead (05:15.092)
Yes, exactly, exactly. Oh my gosh, yeah. But yeah, so we did, we were really lucky. We didn't really get into any legal trouble or accidents or anything. So we were very fortunate, for sure, for sure.

Jane Ballard (05:31.39)
Nothing major. God was looking out for us. I can remember being in the back of Laura's Ford Explorer and there would be like probably eight of us in the way back with the seats down and we would drive over that bridge to the lake and she would turn off her headlights. Oh my gosh.

onstead (05:43.624)
Yes, yeah, so we can all fit in. Yeah.

Yes, yes. And none of us were buckled up because she was the only driver, the one with the license first because she was a year older and so all of us, it gives me anxiety, I mean just thinking about some of that. So yeah, God was definitely looking after us. So that's where my relationship with alcohol started and even then, I mean of course looking back in retrospect,

Jane Ballard (05:57.034)
Yes. She was a year older. We still were like 15 or, oh my gosh, what a nightmare. I can't even believe it.

how fortunate we were.

Jane Ballard (06:10.728)
Yes.

onstead (06:19.304)
I had a very instant, you know, love of the alcohol as far as the way it made me feel. You know, it was...

Jane Ballard (06:25.87)
Uh-huh.

What do you remember about that? When you drink, what do you remember it providing for you?

onstead (06:36.228)
Well, it took away any social anxiety. It made me, you know, more outgoing, I felt like. And it just, you know, kind of instantly gave you a euphoric feeling also, you know, that you definitely, you know, that I definitely chased. And

Jane Ballard (06:41.302)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (06:49.058)
for sure.

Jane Ballard (06:54.446)
And do you remember the way it was like with, we were like freshmen and then the older girls, it was kind of like mean girls in a way. And so it was a way to not be intimidated and to look cool and kind of do what they're doing and be accepted.

onstead (07:04.599)
for sure.

onstead (07:09.2)
sure for sure for sure and I was the target of the main girls

Jane Ballard (07:15.11)
You were the target of the Mean Girls. I think because you were so cute.

onstead (07:17.812)
was. I don't know. I don't really never understood exactly why I was such the target, but they loved to seek me out. Yes, yes. And so that I think that definitely did add, definitely did add some, it was easier to deal with it and it added some courage, you know, as far as when we went out for sure.

Jane Ballard (07:28.534)
to bully you.

Ugh.

Jane Ballard (07:43.678)
Yes, a little liquid courage.

onstead (07:46.824)
Otherwise I probably would have just hit in the car. But yeah, I was definitely bullied by some of them. And again, never really understood why. But then there was also an early consequence to the drinking also because I, from the very beginning, I never had a limit. And so I would always drink too much and then I would be the sloppy drunk girl. And then so there were more repercussions as far as being, you know,

Jane Ballard (07:52.511)
Yes.

onstead (08:16.416)
the targeting of bullying or, you know, and so then there would be a week or two long of just like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I did that. Now everybody's making fun of me because I was the sloppy one or I did, you know, whatever it was. Usually it was.

Jane Ballard (08:18.43)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (08:27.924)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (08:31.658)
Well, and the anxiety too makes that like guilt and shame and cringe feeling even more intense.

onstead (08:34.66)
Oh, for sure. For sure. Totally cringe. And you know, being 15 and already in a freshman and it's hard. And then doing some, you know, drinking too much. I just still remember those early days of just being like, um, it, like I said, it was just early consequences, social consequences of my. Yeah. And so, um,

Jane Ballard (08:56.914)
Right, social consequences, that's a good way to label it.

onstead (09:04.532)
Yeah, it was just, but like I said, I definitely, from the beginning, never had a limit. It was just drink till it was time to go home. And then that continued. Yeah, and then of course it followed me to college. I went to Ole Miss my freshman year. It was probably not.

Jane Ballard (09:15.166)
Right. Yes. Yes, totally. And playing drinking games and that sort of thing.

onstead (09:32.116)
the best decision for me to go that far off because I did, you know, go, it was what 14, 15 hours from home. I went really not knowing anybody. It just sounded like a good idea. And so then the drinking, you know, I used alcohol again for, to feel more accepted or to feel a little more uninhibited or to, you know, get rid of some social anxiety because it definitely does take away your inhibitions.

Jane Ballard (09:44.158)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (09:54.347)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (09:59.606)
Absolutely, it eliminates social anxiety in the short term.

onstead (10:03.316)
in the short term for sure. And so, but again, I was using alcohol, drinking way too much and at college, I mean, you're 14, 15 hours away from home, total free range. And so I ended up failing out both semesters, which the first semester I didn't go, cause I never went to class. I mean, I was just drinking and partying, yes. And then, some different events that happened that I...

Jane Ballard (10:25.666)
surviving.

onstead (10:33.28)
you know, made just stupid decisions. Didn't go to class.

Jane Ballard (10:38.454)
Well, and decisions that maybe you made under the influence or you were hung over and recovering from being under the influence. Yeah.

onstead (10:44.732)
Exactly. Oh, of course. But all alcohol related and kind of went into a depression. So it was, which of course, the alcohol either induced or compounded. Not sure which one.

Jane Ballard (10:53.672)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (11:01.166)
Well, the chemical, alcohol is a central nervous system depressant. And so chemically, it probably exacerbated or caused depression. And then the consequences of alcohol use also contributed to feeling depressed.

onstead (11:06.616)
for sure.

onstead (11:12.789)
Yes.

onstead (11:16.552)
Excessive breaking. Yes. And so I ended up staying two semesters or almost to the second semester. The only reason I even went back is because when I was home for Christmas, I took my grades, do you remember I took my grades out of the mail so that my parents wouldn't see them? And so by the time that they did see them, I was already back. And, but for sure, my failure at college the first time was, I mean, definitely.

Jane Ballard (11:33.046)
Yes!

Jane Ballard (11:46.917)
consequence of that.

onstead (11:47.176)
you know, little consequence of alcohol abuse. So then, you know,

Jane Ballard (11:51.242)
Right. And funny that it was back in the day when grades came into the mail, your parents didn't have access online to see like every single grade you made. So you must've just been hypervigilant watching for the mail every day.

onstead (11:57.492)
Yes. I know. I had to wait for the mail. Yes. I know.

Oh yeah, for sure. And so anyway, we came back to Wichita Falls. Okay, so this is something that I forgot but had remembered is whenever I came back, my mom made me go to an outpatient alcohol treatment. I definitely was not ready for that or ready to, and I think that at 18,

Jane Ballard (12:23.138)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (12:28.507)
Mm-hmm.

onstead (12:33.932)
to say that I could never drink again, there was just absolutely no way I was ready for that. I mean, at 18 to say, and especially whenever you grow up with it being such a part of the culture and it's, oh, absolutely over, yes, yes. And so I kind of went through the motions. It was like, I think a two hour class in the evenings, Monday through Friday.

Jane Ballard (12:39.199)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (12:47.192)
You would feel like your social life is over and as an 18 year old your social life is everything.

Jane Ballard (13:01.07)
Probably like an IOP type program.

onstead (13:02.856)
Yes, but yeah, but yes. And so, yeah. And...

Jane Ballard (13:08.135)
I remember you going to that.

onstead (13:13.788)
Anyway, sorry, I lost my train of thought for just a second.

Jane Ballard (13:16.374)
Did they help you with depression there too?

onstead (13:19.548)
I do not think so. But I also remember going to your mom and had set me up with a counselor. And so I remember then that I did start an antidepressant. I believe. I can't remember. Yeah, I can't remember. I mean, I think so. But again, I can't really remember. I did quit drinking for probably three to six months.

Jane Ballard (13:21.78)
Okay.

Jane Ballard (13:32.926)
Okay, and was that helpful? I guess it's hard to remember, yeah.

onstead (13:48.692)
I can't also remember exactly how long it was. And then, you know, just, you know, went back to like, you know, it's not a problem. And of course it was, and it continued.

Jane Ballard (13:54.818)
kind of went back to it.

Jane Ballard (14:01.138)
It's also hard to have perspective though at that age when everyone you hang out with is drinking to intoxication on a regular basis.

onstead (14:10.224)
Exactly, exactly. So it's like, why are, why would I have a problem, but not everybody else that? Yes, yes. And just to give a little more backstory, you know, my, um, grand, my mother's father was an alcoholic. Um, so she was raised in an alcoholic home. She and my dad decided they, neither one were really drinkers. And so I grew up in a home where alcohol wasn't part.

Jane Ballard (14:16.31)
all these other friends of mine who are doing the same thing.

onstead (14:38.484)
of, you know, I mean, I really never remember seeing my mom drink and maybe my dad once a year.

Jane Ballard (14:40.406)
for everyday life.

Jane Ballard (14:46.494)
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, every time we went to the lake, I don't ever remember seeing your parents drink out there.

onstead (14:50.732)
No, it just wasn't a part of my family life or part of the upbringing. But again, my mom was very sensitive to the fact, and I did know that my grandfather was an alcoholic and of course remembered that he stopped drinking when I was like 11 or 12.

Jane Ballard (15:07.49)
Did he get sober later in life?

Jane Ballard (15:12.678)
Okay, because I don't remember him ever drinking either out at the lake.

onstead (15:16.205)
No. So, okay, so then Doug and I.

Jane Ballard (15:20.886)
But there is that gen, sorry to interrupt, there is that genetic component in your family that potentially also played into your relationship with alcohol, yeah.

onstead (15:23.336)
No. For sure.

onstead (15:28.392)
Yes, yes. And it's not just my grandfather. I mean, there's several, you know, different family members on both sides. So then just Doug and I got married. It was a big part of, you know, Doug grew up in the same culture, in the same town that we did. That was, you know, what everybody did. And, you know, drinking was a big part of our marriage and dating whenever we first met. That's what we did is we got together.

Jane Ballard (15:35.97)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (15:47.389)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (15:50.955)
Right.

onstead (15:57.332)
you know, socially with friends, whether we were going to dinner, whether we were going to party, whether we were just having people over, it was just always centered around alcohol. Yes. Oh, absolutely. A given and not just having a drink or having cocktails. It was, you know, drinking to intoxication, you know, all the time.

Jane Ballard (16:03.234)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (16:06.654)
Yeah, it was just a given.

Jane Ballard (16:16.67)
Right. I can remember back then, you know, my mom being upset with me for drinking. And she would say things like, well, why can't you just have two drinks? And I can remember thinking, well, what's the point of that? Why would I just have two drinks? I don't even like beer. I'm just drinking it because it's how you have fun. Like I'm not going to just sip on two beers.

onstead (16:28.394)
Yes.

onstead (16:31.825)
Oh, for sure.

onstead (16:36.288)
Yes. That was such a foreign concept to say, why would you have any? I mean, and it was always, how much beer do we have for the night? I mean, and it, yes, drink faster, yes. I mean, the point was always, it was never, I don't think for us or for...

Jane Ballard (16:42.355)
It was a foreign concept.

Jane Ballard (16:54.134)
Yes, and we'd play drinking games to drink faster and.

onstead (17:05.524)
you know, the friends and the people that we grew up with, it was never to have a glass of wine socially or to have a couple of beers socially.

Jane Ballard (17:12.746)
No, we didn't drink wine. There wasn't wine back then anyway, unless maybe you got some Francia box wine or Boone's farm.

onstead (17:17.296)
No.

Exactly. It was, oh my gosh, that makes me nauseous just thinking about it. But the point was always to get drunk and even into whenever I got married and our social circle then was always to get drunk.

Jane Ballard (17:25.098)
I know.

Jane Ballard (17:29.47)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (17:40.102)
Surrounded around drinking. Yes. I remember when y'all got married, y'all got married in Hawaii and 9-11 happened while y'all were over there and you were kind of stuck over there for a while, right?

onstead (17:45.812)
Yes.

Yes, yes, yes. So we got married on September 8th, which was a Saturday, and then September 11th, of course, was on the Tuesday. We were due to go to Kauai the following day. We were on Maui, and every all-Inner Island, things were shut down. You couldn't do anything. And Maui was actually, I believe, the last airport.

Jane Ballard (18:01.314)
that Tuesday.

Jane Ballard (18:10.414)
travel.

onstead (18:18.208)
that was cleared to reopen because the Maui Airport is partially outside. Like it's not, yes, so they had to do a lot of different things just to meet the FAA requirements to where they could open back up. So, and then it was crazy because when they did open back up and allow transportation between the islands or just off the islands, they,

Jane Ballard (18:24.935)
Oh wow, it's like an open air.

Jane Ballard (18:33.73)
Wow.

onstead (18:46.888)
just kept what the schedule was. So if your flight was on that Friday or Saturday, then yours stayed. If yours had been two days before, you were just put in line. And so luckily our flights home were not till Saturday. So we were able to come back on our time, but it was definitely scary. Yeah.

Jane Ballard (19:02.04)
Oh good.

Jane Ballard (19:07.302)
Definitely scary. I mean, I guess if you have to be stuck somewhere, that's not a bad place to be stuck, but given the circumstances, it would have been really hard to enjoy yourself. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Okay, so what was early marriage like for you?

onstead (19:16.5)
Yes, yes, it was. It was a little scary.

onstead (19:28.652)
hard to remember. And you know, we okay, so I had found out that I was pregnant not too long after we got back from our honeymoon. And it showed the date of conception being the day that we flew home. I know that they can always be a little bit off. But so when we were planning on waiting. No, no. Yeah, it was probably an incorrect date. But we

Jane Ballard (19:30.218)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (19:46.378)
Yeah. Were y'all part of the mile high club or was it an incorrect date?

onstead (19:57.348)
lost that one. And we weren't, it wasn't a planned pregnancy, you know, but we were still really excited. And so I miscarried. And then even though we were going to wait two or three years, once I was pregnant and had the miscarriage, then I was ready, you know, to have. And so we tried, started trying for Jackson as soon as we could. So early marriage was, you know, we were probably only married um, our

Jane Ballard (19:59.339)
I remember that.

Jane Ballard (20:11.627)
Yes.

onstead (20:22.716)
Anniversary was September 8th and then Jackson was born of 2001 and then Jackson was born 2003 So very early on You know, we were young parents and also we had the steps my stepson Hudson who was six at the time but You know, I think it was just normal struggles of you know, newlyweds just life but then also You know, there was a lot of drinking. That's just what we did

Jane Ballard (20:29.142)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (20:33.034)
pregnant and.

Jane Ballard (20:36.754)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (20:50.194)
Mm-hmm.

onstead (20:50.22)
for fun, for date night, it was getting together with our group of friends and drinking. And it's hard to remember exactly. I'm sure it caused a lot of problems, whether arguing or fighting over, stuff that isn't important, that it was just a drunken argument. I do remember Doug,

Jane Ballard (20:56.415)
Right.

Jane Ballard (21:07.186)
stuff that isn't important in the grand scheme of things.

onstead (21:15.72)
And I don't know how early this started, but I know that it was a common problem for us throughout was that Doug would kind of get onto me of like, you know, you definitely overdid it last night or you said, I can't believe you said this to this person or I can't believe. And I remember it would just make me so angry. And because he was drinking too, he was just more...

You know, he clear headed. Didn't like to...

Jane Ballard (21:48.318)
Yeah. And he's a very large man, so he probably was less impacted by alcohol.

onstead (21:53.152)
Yes, yes. And so, and I would always, you know, you just don't want me to have fun. You just don't like me. You just don't like my personality, you know? And so that was a common fight that constantly happened throughout. So yes, definitely a pattern. And it was, and it was regularly.

Jane Ballard (22:07.762)
Interesting. So there was like a pattern of that.

onstead (22:16.648)
that argument. But of course, you know, now sober and looking back on it, I mean, some of the things that I did or would say to people, you know, he was very, he had a good reason to be like, oh, you drank too much, you did this.

Jane Ballard (22:28.718)
Yes. Well, and he's such a nice, kind person. And if you're saying something that could potentially offend someone, I'm sure he was just like, Katie, no. Yes.

onstead (22:33.36)
Oh, he would cringe.

Yes. I made him so nervous all of the time on what I was gonna say or what I was gonna do that he was, you know, having to, and you're exactly right, Doug doesn't like, you know, he doesn't like being uncomfortable for anybody to be upset. So yeah, he was always, I think he probably had more of a anxiety the next day from what his wife did, embarrassed him.

Jane Ballard (22:47.999)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (22:55.287)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (23:01.414)
from you. Well, and I think we both kind of have that trait of, we appear very, like proper sometimes. And so it can be, I think once when you're intoxicated, it can be kind of fun to say shocking things and surprise people. And I know I did that a lot.

onstead (23:13.366)
Yes.

onstead (23:20.124)
Exactly. Yes.

For sure, I did a lot. It was almost entertainment for me to say, yes.

Jane Ballard (23:26.8)
Yes.

Yes. Like you're bored and you can say something kind of crazy and all of a sudden people are like either laughing or they're having some kind of emotional response. Yeah.

onstead (23:38.94)
Yes, for sure, for sure. So poor Doug. And I think also I remember my argument was probably a manipulation to try to get him to leave me alone, not try to regulate my alcohol intake. And so that was just a way to turn it around and oh, you just don't like my personality. Everybody thinks I'm funny except for you. You must not really love me.

Jane Ballard (24:02.377)
Mm-hmm.

Yes.

onstead (24:06.724)
you know, or you just don't like me or you know, you're, or, or you're trying to control me, you know, it was always going to be one of those arguments and he's just like, you know, that's not it.

Jane Ballard (24:12.159)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (24:16.466)
Yes, but it was much easier probably for you to focus on that narrative than look at the reality of, you know what, maybe these consequences aren't actually worth the benefit of drinking, whatever that might be. So was there a point where you, or I guess what led you to be like, you know what, I think this isn't working for me anymore. I want to make some changes.

onstead (24:21.501)
Oh, for sure.

for sure.

Exactly, exactly. Yes.

onstead (24:41.12)
Yeah, so there was also kind of a pattern throughout before I quit drinking six and a half years ago, it'll be seven in March, of me kind of pulling a big stunt and being confronted by, you know, Doug and my mom of like, look, you know, this is a problem, you've got to quit drinking.

Jane Ballard (25:00.885)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (25:07.841)
Mm-hmm.

onstead (25:08.684)
But then I also believed the narrative of, I don't drink every day, so I don't have a problem. I only drink beer or wine, so I don't have a problem. I didn't, hard liquor was never my thing. Or all of y'all drink, why do you think that I have a problem? But then I would do something that caused everybody to, and I guess there would be an incident.

Jane Ballard (25:20.584)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (25:33.37)
So every now and then there would be an incident that would get people's attention.

onstead (25:37.856)
that would get people's attention, I would be confronted by it, so I would agree. Okay, maybe I need to take a step back from alcohol. And I may quit for a little bit. I probably would, in some of the details, it's been years, but I would quit and then say, well, I'm only gonna drink once a month, and I'm only gonna have two or three. Well, I would secretly probably down five.

before I had my two or three and then yes, that I was moderating and that it wasn't a problem. So that.

Jane Ballard (26:09.406)
And so it would appear that you were kind of moderating.

Jane Ballard (26:15.89)
What did that do to you from an emotional standpoint, just kind of like keeping up that, or trying to keep up that persona? That's stressful.

onstead (26:26.236)
Yeah, it was stressful. You know, I had some guilt, you know, and shame, constantly thinking, looking over my shoulder, like, you know, oh, is, you know, Doug gonna catch this, is, you know, and, but I, it's hard to say, because I don't know if I was just more worried about getting caught and then having to have the consequence of really not drinking, or, you know, what that emotional struggle was.

Jane Ballard (26:52.04)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (26:55.53)
Yeah, and I'm sure there was a lot of like just avoidance of thinking about the reality of it.

onstead (27:00.98)
Yes, yes. Because I mean, for me, I just wanted, it was more of a, I wanted to protect my ability to drink. Yeah, and so that had been going on. I guess that there was another incident where I was confronted to quit drinking. And so I quit drinking for a period of time, which really,

Jane Ballard (27:10.347)
your freedom.

onstead (27:30.024)
I probably did for a little while and then I just started hiding it. And so then I didn't drink in front of anybody as far as family, especially my mom is one of the ones that I didn't want her to know that I was drinking. Doug, I was able to convince that it was okay if I just had a little bit. But the little bit turned into, of course, more.

Jane Ballard (27:33.084)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (27:43.08)
Mm-hmm.

onstead (27:54.644)
And then I was just hiding the drinking and Doug lived out, not lived out of town, Doug worked out of town. So it was easier for me, you know. Yes. And so...

Jane Ballard (28:01.494)
he'd be gone during the week a lot.

Jane Ballard (28:06.386)
And that was probably highly stressful and maybe alcohol felt like a way to cope. You know, taking care of two boys at that time and.

onstead (28:10.78)
Yes, yes, and I did have... Yeah, yeah. And so I think that there was definitely an internal struggle with myself of like, okay, this is getting out of hand. Like I, you know, I can see this having a lot of consequences if I continue to keep drinking.

Jane Ballard (28:24.725)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (28:36.82)
Yeah.

onstead (28:36.864)
But then also the hangovers became so intense and I would be sick for two days. I would drink the same amount that I always had and then the anxiety became overwhelming. I would have such anxiety, yes. But then I was kind of on the roller coaster too of, then you have such a bad hangover, the anxiety. And then.

Jane Ballard (28:52.034)
Just debilitating.

Jane Ballard (29:01.918)
and horrible anxiety. Yes.

onstead (29:04.652)
Two or three days later though, like, okay, I'm so anxious. I just need, you know, a beer to calm me down. And so it was just kind of that to where I was, yes. And just knew that it was time to give up alcohol. And then my mom and Doug, again, I think had kind of caught on to how much that I was drinking. And so they kind of confronted me again. And at that point I agreed.

Jane Ballard (29:11.99)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (29:15.992)
just a roller coaster.

onstead (29:36.551)
to go to treatment.

Jane Ballard (29:37.838)
Mm-hmm.

onstead (29:40.148)
My circumstances, I didn't need to detox. So I opted for an intensive IOP. Or, and I can't remember, you'll have to tell me what it stands for. It's intensive outpatient. Yes.

Jane Ballard (29:51.734)
Oh, intensive outpatient. There's PHP, which is partial hospitalization. And that's kind of like eight to five. And then you go home in the evenings, but you see a physician and you have groups and programming.

onstead (29:56.088)
Okay, that's what I was. Yes, yes, yes. I didn't see a physician. I did see a psychiatrist because the place that I went to and Jane is the one that got me connected to the ranch. Yes, I did. I called Jane and was like, okay, I think that I have a problem. And Jane was like, yes, I think you do. And so she helped me get into the ranch

Jane Ballard (30:12.782)
I remember you called me and yeah.

onstead (30:26.136)
Dovetree and I opted for, I know that a lot of people need inpatient with Doug working out of town, with Clara Jane just being two, with me having the boys, with me not needing to detox because I could go days without drinking. I wasn't, didn't have a necessarily a yes on alcohol, but I did go, I believe I went from,

Jane Ballard (30:27.271)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (30:34.347)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (30:42.751)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (30:47.51)
You weren't physically dependent.

onstead (30:56.1)
Gosh, I think I went from 10 in the morning until five, and then there was an hour break, and then I think I went from six to nine. So, but, or.

Jane Ballard (31:04.202)
Wow. So you were out there most waking hours.

onstead (31:08.212)
Yes, or it may have been that I went from one to five and then six to nine. I can't really remember.

Jane Ballard (31:14.522)
Okay. And then maybe that was so you could be with Clara Jane during the day or something?

onstead (31:19.584)
Yes, and so we got sitters that did help with clorajane because at that time she was only two. So I think maybe it was one to five and then maybe six to nine. Anyway, I was there a lot and I was there and I can't remember if I did 30 or 60 days. I can't remember.

Jane Ballard (31:27.862)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (31:38.246)
Okay. So looking back, do you feel like there was a shift in your readiness at that point to like actually do something about it rather than just avoid confrontation?

onstead (31:51.424)
I've thought about that a lot, and I still am not really clear on if, I mean, I guess I had to have been ready.

Jane Ballard (32:03.274)
Yeah, either that or you learned something in treatment that just hit home or...

onstead (32:09.168)
Yes, so I think that, okay, so I think without treatment, I definitely wouldn't have still be living alcohol free. Yes, and I think that there was a big, I don't know if this is true or if this was just my perception of the way that treatment, the way that people think about treatment, people that don't have a problem with alcohol.

Jane Ballard (32:17.742)
state, like maintained sobriety. Yeah.

onstead (32:36.008)
is I felt like that some people in my life almost thought that going to treatment was a weakness. Like, why can't you just quit? And I've thought about this a lot. It's almost like, well, if you have to go to treatment, then your willpower's lacking, or you're just not strong enough, so you need to go to treatment. It's weird, and I'm like, well, they don't give you a magic pill and treatment. They don't give you a shot and say,

Jane Ballard (32:44.107)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (33:03.542)
No.

onstead (33:06.048)
So at the end of the day, whether you go to treatment or not, you're still quitting with willpower and with your own decision, just the same as if you didn't go to treatment. So I don't know, do you think that there's that kind of perception with people that think that...

Jane Ballard (33:11.602)
Absolutely.

Jane Ballard (33:25.778)
There's probably a little bit of a stigma that I think is getting better. But for some people, they hear the word treatment or rehab and they have just this stereotype in their head and they may, they likely don't realize what that actually entails, which is a lot of hard work. A lot of group therapy and working the steps and confronting, yes, confronting resentments and guilt and shame. And...

onstead (33:29.813)
Yeah.

onstead (33:41.076)
Right. Yes.

onstead (33:47.736)
Humbling yourselves. Yes.

Jane Ballard (33:54.194)
you learn new tools, which I don't understand why there would be a stigma with it's basically like education. You're learning how to cope in a healthy way.

onstead (33:55.956)
Yes, for sure.

onstead (34:04.938)
Yes.

And also just learning.

learning kind of just the biology and the physiology of alcohol and what it does to your system and what it does to your mind. And you know, I loved treatment. Like I said, I don't think that I would be still sober today if I didn't go to treatment. Also, there's a spiritual awakening, but there's also a lot of healing.

Jane Ballard (34:15.722)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (34:20.534)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (34:31.315)
Yes.

onstead (34:37.844)
And I don't really, I didn't, I had a great childhood and stuff. I don't have any deep traumas or anything that I had to deal with. But you learn a lot about yourself, a lot about your relationships, you know, healthy relationships, some that may not be quite that healthy. And so I loved it. I mean, I would definitely recommend it for anybody. I know that some people need in-treatment and you know, I think that would, I mean, inpatient, I think that that, you know, I can't know that could be, seem scary for some.

Jane Ballard (34:43.735)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (34:53.93)
Yes.

onstead (35:07.992)
But if you have a good enough support system like I did, you know, the intensive out, the PHP, the partial, and the IOP, it was great for me. I had a good experience with it. I'm in a lot of different people, yeah. I do too, yes, yes. And just for sure, and meeting the people, you know,

Jane Ballard (35:15.081)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (35:19.798)
Yeah, for a busy mom, I think it's so great that that's even available, that you can still go home at night and be with your family and go work on yourself during the day.

onstead (35:35.784)
It's a humbling experience. I mean, you know, there's just, it's just a very human problem. You know, there it's just all ages, all walks of life. Um, but the effects are the same. Uh, so no, so there, um, you know, there were a lot of younger people there. You know, it's not just alcohol that's in the treatment, you know, I mean, one of the guys was, yeah, was his problem was bath salts and you know, that

Jane Ballard (35:41.526)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (35:47.062)
Absolutely, it doesn't discriminate.

Jane Ballard (35:57.743)
Yeah, it's like any substance of abuse.

Jane Ballard (36:03.954)
Oh my gosh.

onstead (36:05.556)
That led for some really interesting group discussions.

Jane Ballard (36:08.982)
I bet I'm sure you got a whole other education in all the substances that are out there.

onstead (36:11.488)
So yeah, he was still kind of convinced that he had made a deal with the devil to become famous. Yeah, it was, it was kind of crazy. And he, and he knew that it was, he didn't, but you know, in groups he was like, but I think I really may, there's a possibility. And we're like, could it have just been, could it be just a hallucination? I was also very fortunate that Doug was very supportive.

Jane Ballard (36:18.902)
Really?

Jane Ballard (36:30.194)
He's like, there's a part of me that isn't quite sure yet.

onstead (36:40.484)
of me going, he came to all of the spouse therapy sessions and different things. There were some one-on-one or just with my counselor with Doug and I, that there was a marriage part that was once a week and he came to that. And then Doug, you know, kind of just got on board and kind of changed our lifestyle also. Drinking was, like I said, a big part. The interesting thing is, is that I think that Doug was,

Jane Ballard (36:44.47)
like family programming.

Jane Ballard (37:01.673)
Mm-hmm.

onstead (37:10.184)
already to the point where it wasn't fun for him. As far as, there were a lot of times, I was thinking about this also, that he would get home from work on a Friday. He was ready to just, you know, relax, be with the kids. And I'm like, I've been by myself. I would, you know, and I was like having to coax him, like, let's go have a drink, let's do this. And he's like, so I mean, yes. And so, but he's been really supportive. He's kind of changed his lifestyle as far as,

Jane Ballard (37:12.935)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (37:28.262)
Yes, like you're ready to get out of the house and do something.

onstead (37:40.592)
is how often he drinks. At first he really cut back even at the lake and stuff, which that's, you know, after he's been working in the hot sun or he's out on the water, you know, he loves to have a few beers. When I first got sober, he really cut that back. And then as time goes on, he does drink more in the summer. It doesn't bother me at all.

Jane Ballard (37:50.289)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (37:58.143)
Okay.

onstead (38:08.64)
during the fall and the winter months, whenever we're at home in shallow water. I mean, we don't have alcohol in the house except for maybe some bottles of lineup at the top that is even brought as a hostess gift or that I've had that's just left over. But he'll go months without even having a beer. Yeah, it's just not really part of our home life. So I'm very, very grateful for that. So.

Jane Ballard (38:21.834)
as a gift.

Jane Ballard (38:28.15)
Without a drink. Okay. That's really nice.

Jane Ballard (38:37.862)
So now I feel like the landscape for sobriety and living alcohol free has changed a lot over the last, like since you got sober almost seven years ago. Before it was kind of like AA was the main source of support and community. What was that like for you? Did you choose that route after you finished your treatment program?

onstead (38:48.032)
Yes, for sure.

onstead (38:55.52)
Yes.

onstead (39:03.72)
So the Ranch at Dovetree, they require you to go to AA meetings. You can pick your own, and so I had found one, and they really encourage you to find a sponsor on your own. That's not something that they do for you. They kind of give you a deadline, and then you would also have one-on-one meetings with your psychologist or counselor or therapist. I can't remember which one. So they kind of hold you accountable by finding a sponsor.

Jane Ballard (39:16.427)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (39:28.191)
Yeah.

onstead (39:31.74)
I had found a sponsor pretty early on. And so I did that. I did complete the 12 steps. And after I graduated from the treatment program, I did go to meetings periodically. And then I just didn't really feel like that it was necessary for me or.

Jane Ballard (39:38.626)
the 12 steps.

onstead (39:58.216)
I guess I should say I knew early on that I wasn't going to be a life for AA meetings, you know, and there are a lot of people who need it and they go to two meetings a day. And it's it works for them and that's what they need. But then also, I think it's great because their stories are inspiring to all of the newcomers. And so I think that maybe it's also a calling for them, you know, that a way of giving back. And so, you know, some of the

Jane Ballard (40:02.24)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (40:11.212)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (40:16.91)
For sure.

Jane Ballard (40:21.776)
Mm-hmm, a way to give back.

onstead (40:27.828)
People in AA, they've been there and no matter what, they're there and have been, and have been sober for 40 years, you know, but they still go once or twice a day. And I think it's definitely for them to get back. For sure, for sure. I think with me, once I felt comfortable in my sobriety,

Jane Ballard (40:36.332)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (40:40.818)
Yeah, it's almost like a ministry for them probably.

onstead (40:51.464)
And I had talked to her about with my sponsor and she's like, it's not necessary to stay sober to come to the meetings. She was like, you know, a lot of people need it because they don't have supportive spouses at home. They don't have, you know, just different circumstances are different. I didn't feel like that it was something that I needed. I also have my faith and my, you know, spiritual walk that I know has helped me with my sobriety. And so I felt comfortable in not continuing to go.

Jane Ballard (40:57.814)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (41:06.092)
Right.

Jane Ballard (41:15.298)
for sure.

onstead (41:20.396)
to meetings, I have continued to stay in touch with my sponsor. And so I do try to meet with her at least once a year, just to kind of not really touch base, kind of review how things are going, anything that I may need to kind of clean up in my life, anything that may be a problem, anything that I think may be a trigger at some point that I would wanna use alcohol, but.

Jane Ballard (41:27.348)
Okay.

Jane Ballard (41:34.146)
Just touch base and review how things are going.

onstead (41:50.8)
I'm pretty comfortable, but I also know you never get too comfortable, too comfortable. But at the same time, it's not a daily struggle. It's not a even weekly or monthly struggle to me. To me now, it's just the way it is, just like it was before I started drinking. There are moments where you're like, oh.

Jane Ballard (41:54.51)
you don't want to get too comfortable, right?

Jane Ballard (42:12.95)
Yes.

onstead (42:17.28)
especially at a nice restaurant, we're at a nice restaurant, there's this beautiful meal, it's like, oh, a glass of wine would be nice. It's a fleeting thought, you know, of like, oh, I wish that I could have, you know, a glass of wine, or I wish that, you know, I could kind of join in. But the reality isn't that I could just have a glass of wine and it'd be fun, you know? And I've been asked this before, is if I thought that I could handle drinking.

Jane Ballard (42:26.306)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (42:29.49)
a glass of wine.

onstead (42:43.268)
And there's not, I know without a shadow of a doubt that if I had one beer right now, I would not wanna stop. Now could I, you know, probably, but I wouldn't want to. Oh, yeah, for sure, for sure.

Jane Ballard (42:52.138)
Yeah.

Probably, but eventually it might progress to a point that it becomes problematic. Yeah. And I mean, life without alcohol really is pretty good.

onstead (43:10.268)
So much better. It's so much better. You know, I was thinking, you know, this too, just about how obsessed our culture is with alcohol, that it is included in everything. Everything centers around every social event, every, you know, everything, every event, concerts. Yes, all of that, everything. I just, in fact, I saw somebody sharing.

Jane Ballard (43:12.95)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (43:19.911)
Mm-hmm.

everything.

Jane Ballard (43:30.774)
Yeah, kids sporting events and.

onstead (43:39.056)
The other day it was somebody, a friend from Wichita Falls who I haven't seen in years and I don't even remember where she lives. But she was sharing a deal with her church. It was a women's, you know, like Wednesday night kind of Bible study with wine. And it's like just such an example about how everything and I mean, of course, that being said, you know, not judging anybody for having a glass of wine or.

Jane Ballard (43:45.597)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (43:55.63)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (43:59.844)
Yes

Jane Ballard (44:05.966)
Yeah, it's just like, it's just indicative of our culture, that it's at our Bible studies, it's at our kids sporting events, it's at play dates in the park, it's everywhere. Yeah.

onstead (44:08.148)
It's just how everything happens. For sure, for sure.

onstead (44:17.48)
Yes, it's everywhere. And it's dangerous, you know? I think about too with kids, you know, and I've thought about this just with different things that I've seen, but.

as far as people's dependency on alcohol, and even if they don't have a problem with alcohol, let's just say they don't have a problem. And I've heard this, you hear it all the time. So if anybody's listening, I'm not, and you've done this, I'm not talking about you, I'm just saying, because you hear it all the time. It's on TV, it's everything, it's like, oh, I've had such a long day, I've been so stressed out, I've gotta have a glass of wine. And so, you know, what are we teaching our kids if,

Jane Ballard (44:39.306)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (44:42.772)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (44:50.608)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (45:00.011)
Right.

onstead (45:05.388)
But it's also what we were taught, you know, taught, whether by our parents or even if they didn't drink just by culture in general, is that everything, you know, you need alcohol to calm your stress. Instead of teaching them healthy ways to deal with a stressful situation, to cope with everything that life is going to throw you, you know, we're sending them message. Yes, yes, and not.

Jane Ballard (45:09.942)
Just by culture. Yes.

Jane Ballard (45:22.571)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (45:26.778)
Yes. Like let me take 10 minutes to myself to go do something that I enjoy to switch gears and relax. Yes. Like we are modeling for our children what is normal and they're watching. Whether we realize it or not, they're watching us. Yeah.

onstead (45:35.752)
me to gossip on? For sure. For sure. For sure. Oh, for sure. For sure. Um, I will share that. So you know, and of course I worry about my kids with me having a problem with alcohol and then also with just the genetic component. And so I kind of worry about my kids. I'm try to be as honest, you know, with them as possible.

Jane Ballard (46:03.391)
Mm-hmm.

onstead (46:03.856)
One of my counselors, whenever I did go to treatment, did talk about a statistic, and of course there's different statistics for anything, but that kids that see their parents go through something and correct it are less likely to make the same mistakes. And so I hope and I pray that for my children, I throw a lot of statistics at them a lot, like the longer you wait to start drinking,

Jane Ballard (46:12.19)
Right.

Jane Ballard (46:26.71)
Yes.

onstead (46:32.512)
the more, you know, less likely you'll be able to have a problem. Yes. You know, just different things, but whenever I was celebrated five years sobriety, they, Doug and Jackson and Cannon came to the meeting. I told a little bit of my story and Doug, you know, told me how proud he was. And so they, he was the one that gave me my chip. So I have a picture of them. Yeah. And so.

Jane Ballard (46:32.874)
Yes. You're less likely you'll ever have an addiction. Yes.

Jane Ballard (46:57.13)
Aww.

onstead (47:00.544)
I don't know, it was special. And I hope that they, you know, see that I don't try to pretend, you know, like I have it all together, you know, I'm human, we all are, but you know, you can, yes. And it's how you handle, you know, the mistakes and how you handle difficult times in life. Hopefully that defines who you are and not the mistakes that you made. So that was special, yeah.

Jane Ballard (47:06.37)
Yes. Yes, we all mess up, but we get back up and do our best.

Jane Ballard (47:23.378)
Absolutely. So what do you think about kind of the advent of the Sober Curious Movement and the view that's a little bit different than the disease model of addiction, the view that states that people are not the problem, that alcohol is the problem. Alcohol is a problematic substance, and anyone has the capacity to have negative consequences from it. And there are no benefits.

at least to your physical health, to drinking alcohol. What comes up for you? Yeah.

onstead (47:58.22)
I mean, I think it's great. I think it's such a long time coming, you know? And you can probably answer more to this. You know, I get a little bit confused and people ask me a lot about, you know, what makes an alcoholic. And I'm like, to tell you the truth, I don't really know. I'm not gonna answer that question. I can't tell you if you're an alcoholic. I do know that there's a genetic component. I don't know.

Jane Ballard (48:02.603)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (48:16.012)
Yeah.

onstead (48:22.744)
But I mean, I think that anybody can develop a dependence on alcohol, whether you have the gene or not. So I don't really understand the fascination, I guess, with

Jane Ballard (48:28.458)
Absolutely.

Jane Ballard (48:32.306)
any human can become physically dependent on alcohol. And anyone who's not physically dependent on alcohol can still have negative consequences from the use of alcohol or develop other medical issues. I mean, we now know that alcohol is a classified one carcinogen and it's linked to seven different types of cancer including breast cancer in women. And three, nobody talks about this. And

onstead (48:35.829)
Yes.

onstead (48:45.117)
medical issues.

onstead (48:49.546)
Yes.

onstead (48:55.724)
which I don't think anybody talks about it or knows about it.

Jane Ballard (49:00.242)
I was reading about it yesterday, 3.5% of all cancer deaths are cancers that were caused by alcohol. And that's a scary statistic, you know?

onstead (49:08.992)
Wow.

onstead (49:12.788)
Very statistic. I remember you were telling me just about it being a level one carcinogen and I'm like, I had no idea. And you kind of likened it to the tobacco industry where that was kept secret and stuff, because I mean, it's a multi-billion dollar industry.

Jane Ballard (49:20.959)
No.

Jane Ballard (49:24.65)
industry.

Jane Ballard (49:30.226)
Absolutely. So much of our economy is riding on alcohol being ingrained in our culture. But you think about the 50s, 60s, 70s when doctors are, you know, you see advertisements with doctors in white coats smoking their cigarettes and promoting a brand and, you know, people really didn't know for a while that cigarettes caused cancer. And I think that alcohol is very similar.

onstead (49:33.748)
Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

onstead (49:46.313)
Yeah, yeah.

onstead (49:54.392)
Well, and you know that I think it's, yeah. And you know that they've had to have known about it for decades as far as alcohol. I think that it's great though. And I hear a lot about the sober curious movement. I think that people may be too hung up on whether they are an alcoholic or not. And it's, is it causing a problem in your life? Okay. And then.

Jane Ballard (50:01.046)
Yes, yes.

Jane Ballard (50:14.538)
Yes.

onstead (50:21.388)
but go really deeper than that. Why do you want to use alcohol? Are you using it to cope with stress? Which in turns causes more stress just for the physical attributes of the way that alcohol metabolizes in your system. There's so many things. I think that each individual just really needs to look at the relationship with alcohol.

Jane Ballard (50:26.922)
Right.

Jane Ballard (50:33.078)
Absolutely.

Jane Ballard (50:46.698)
I think I totally agree. The term alcoholic, I think in some ways it's been tremendously helpful to some people. And then in some ways, I think that it's kept a lot of people in a pattern of using alcohol and continuing to suffer consequences because the consequences don't look like a typical alcoholic consequence. And so my advice would be just let go of trying to figure out.

onstead (50:57.748)
Absolutely.

onstead (51:02.555)
Yes.

onstead (51:09.8)
Exactly.

Jane Ballard (51:14.666)
that question, am I an alcoholic or not? Like, that's the wrong question. The question is, you know, what are the costs of alcohol in my life? What's the benefit of alcohol in my life? What would happen if I created a life that was so satisfying that I didn't need alcohol anymore? You know, what if I radically set boundaries and made changes in my life? Maybe alcohol would be irrelevant.

onstead (51:15.36)
The label.

onstead (51:24.664)
wish you all the best.

onstead (51:35.796)
Yes.

onstead (51:42.624)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (51:43.39)
You know, what are, how is alcohol a barrier to me reaching my potential in life? How's it impacting my marriage? How's it impacting my children? Do I want my children to have the same relationship with alcohol that I have? All those questions are really what's most important. And alcoholic really isn't an official medical term. The official diagnosis would be alcohol use disorder, but most people don't.

onstead (51:49.944)
for sure.

For sure.

onstead (51:58.594)
Yes.

onstead (52:10.912)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (52:13.682)
actually have alcohol use disorder, but they could have lots of different consequences from alcohol use. And so my advice is let go of the term alcoholic unless that helps you. And if AA isn't the route that people wanna go, there's now so many other options for finding support and healing and...

onstead (52:20.916)
Yes.

onstead (52:30.946)
There's so many, yes.

onstead (52:35.484)
even just in the seven years since I've quit drinking, it's changed radically. The alcoholic thing it does, people get so hung up on that. And I know I didn't like love the label, you don't wanna be identified, it has such a stigma to it and there's such a...

Jane Ballard (52:37.91)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (52:48.296)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (52:55.591)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (52:59.188)
It does.

onstead (53:00.188)
misconceptions that, you know, okay, if you're an alcoholic, you're waking up at 5am to, you know, get a drink of vodka or something, you know, or you've had some major life consequences that had, where you just can't, you know. I didn't have, yes, yes. And that wasn't my story at all, you know. I didn't get a DUI. I never, you know, got into any legal trouble. Nobody ever got

Jane Ballard (53:12.99)
Right, like you've almost ruined your life and you have to quit drinking or you're going to die or lose everything.

onstead (53:26.688)
physically hurt, you know, there was nothing that what I guess people would say would be, oh, well, you know, she hit rock bottom, she's lost her marriage, she's lost, you know, her kid, you know, different things like that. There was nothing like that for me. It was just, you know, some family and myself knowing this just isn't a good, good road that I need to continue. You know, it's, it's can be detrimental. Yeah.

Jane Ballard (53:38.478)
There was nothing like that. Yeah.

Jane Ballard (53:46.667)
YAH!

Jane Ballard (53:51.482)
Yeah. Yeah, the cost is too high for the very minimal benefit.

onstead (53:56.2)
Yeah, for sure. Very, and at that point, you know, I mean, by the time that I had decided to give it up, there was no benefit, you know? I mean, it wasn't fun anymore. I felt so horrible. But it was also such a large part of my identity of being the fun, uninhibited, oh, Katie, let's go have a drink, you know? Oh, Katie's here. Is that, you know, you kinda had to, yeah, yeah.

Jane Ballard (54:05.718)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (54:14.623)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (54:19.91)
Yes. Like Katie's the life of the party. And then you feel like you have to kind of live up to that.

onstead (54:27.888)
Yeah, yeah, for sure. So it's finding who you are without alcohol. And so on one hand, oh, Molly, on one hand, you don't want alcohol to be who you are, to kind of define you, but then you also don't want the fact that you don't drink alcohol to define who you are. And it shouldn't, but it kind of does. Yes, yeah.

Jane Ballard (54:29.795)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (54:39.295)
I know she's barking so I'm gonna

Jane Ballard (54:51.026)
Right. It shouldn't be a part of your identity. Yes, absolutely. And I think that our culture is getting better there. I think that there's a counter cultural movement that is gaining momentum and it's changing the conversation. And I'm, I'm so hopeful and optimistic about that.

onstead (54:59.872)
I think so. Yes.

onstead (55:05.812)
Yes.

I really am too. And I know I've shared this with you that whenever I very first started, stopped drinking, I had so much anxiety when we did have something social to go to that I didn't want anybody to know that I wasn't drinking. So I did everything I could to camouflage. I would drink non-alcoholic beer that looked like it was still beer. You had to really look to tell that it was non-alcoholic or I would drink.

Jane Ballard (55:23.786)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (55:32.509)
Yeah.

onstead (55:36.02)
uh, soda water with limes and it may look like a vodka tonic. I didn't want anybody to question the fact that I wasn't drinking, which says so much about our culture too. That, you know, but somebody will question and it's like, well, why aren't you drinking? What happened to you that you're not drinking instead of the other way around? Like it's so backwards in our culture and what's acceptable, but drinking to drug and drunkenness, you know, is

Jane Ballard (55:44.184)
Yeah.

Yes, that somebody will question that.

Jane Ballard (56:00.087)
Yes.

onstead (56:05.892)
more acceptable than me, you know, choosing to take alcohol out of my life. Now, yes, yes. And so now it doesn't bother me. And it's funny, I think I was just at such a vulnerable spot whenever I did first quit drinking because it had been such a big part of my life and kind of my identity. And so, and then I didn't want people to get the wrong impression of what, you know, why I wasn't drinking anymore.

Jane Ballard (56:08.718)
Choosing not to drink. Right, it's the only drug in the world that you have to justify not using.

Jane Ballard (56:27.15)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (56:34.27)
and maybe you weren't ready to answer those questions and that's okay. And I think if that's what people need to do for a while, then that's fine.

onstead (56:36.66)
I don't think I was, yeah. And it was also, yes. And it was, but then I also kind of had guilt that, and it was definitely just something with me, like, well, you know, why am I ashamed to say that I'm not drinking? You know, that was kind of the feeling or the narrative in my head. Like I was feeling like maybe I was doing something wrong by pretending that I was drinking. And I wasn't pretending that I was drinking. I was just, you know, yeah.

Jane Ballard (57:00.874)
Mm-hmm. You're just trying to blend in.

onstead (57:05.152)
But now looking back, like that's what I needed to do at that time and that was perfectly fine. Now it doesn't bother me in the slightest, I will have a mocktail if we go to dinner and I do like a non-alcoholic beer every once in a while when it's hot and at the lake or if we're at the beach or something. But for the most part, I mean, and now everybody carries around these giant cups. I mean, everybody just assumes you have alcohol in it. It's just my strawberry water, but.

Jane Ballard (57:08.307)
Absolutely.

Jane Ballard (57:20.65)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (57:30.434)
Who knows what's in those cups?

onstead (57:34.882)
So.

Jane Ballard (57:34.926)
Yes. Well, any advice that you would give to people who are early in sobriety or who are considering living an alcohol-free life, anything that was super helpful for you that you would share with others.

onstead (57:51.564)
Gosh, so many things I know, but I don't know what I could. One thing that I will say is that, you know, they say not to get sober or, you know, choose sobriety for anybody but yourself, which is true. You definitely have to want it. If you're doing it for somebody else, you won't succeed. It won't be, you know, a part of your life long-term. But I think that when you're a wife and a mother and a daughter,

Jane Ballard (58:16.384)
right.

onstead (58:21.568)
and you value those relationships, you really have to take a look at how alcohol is affecting the people that are most important to you. And then also, of course, you know, you really need to have raw honesty with yourself. And I've had a lot of conversations with different friends that will say, and I think that they're almost kind of fishing like,

Jane Ballard (58:31.902)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (58:42.997)
Yeah.

onstead (58:49.856)
do they have a problem or do they not? So they want me to validate in some way, which really they don't want to hear my opinion. And I don't know. I mean, I have an idea, I have a thought. And so to me, whenever they're asking, it's more like they're asking themselves and maybe trying to justify them. So they'll say, well, I quit drinking during the week and I only drink on the weekends or,

Jane Ballard (58:52.537)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (58:59.79)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (59:08.618)
Right. And maybe.

onstead (59:17.472)
done this or I've done that or I've made this change. And so, but like you said, they're asking the wrong question as far as are you an alcoholic? It's what does it add to your life? What does it take away from your life? And you know, most people that do have a dependency on alcohol are very high functioning. I would say that's the majority of people that have a problem with alcohol. And so I think that there's also, this is what

Jane Ballard (59:23.195)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (59:28.106)
What does it take away?

Jane Ballard (59:35.758)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (59:41.129)
Yes.

onstead (59:44.62)
going to treatment helped me see as far as truthfully is that most people that have a problem with alcohol look like me and not what the stigmas or what you think is the homeless man on the corner who's lost everything because of drinking. And so that helped, I mean, my faith helped a lot. Finding somebody to help you, to hold you accountable,

Jane Ballard (59:52.809)
me and you.

Jane Ballard (01:00:02.196)
Right.

Jane Ballard (01:00:08.322)
Yes.

onstead (01:00:14.336)
you know, whether it's a sponsor, whether it's a counselor, whether it's somebody and you know, I know that there's a lot of other resources now besides AA.

Jane Ballard (01:00:21.994)
Yes. Even online groups, you know, and a lot of AA groups meet virtually, and then also just groups that are led by different coaches on, you know, that you can find on social media.

onstead (01:00:26.205)
Yes.

onstead (01:00:35.784)
Yes. And then I think also it's not what you're giving up, focus on what you're gaining. Because the relationship that I have with my children now, I would not have if I was still drinking. I quit drinking when Jackson was in junior high. And for a while I had hit really kind of how much I didn't drink really around them. It was, you know, I didn't, I didn't drink around them for a couple of years prior to that.

Jane Ballard (01:01:03.114)
Yeah.

onstead (01:01:05.58)
All through Jackson's high school years and in cannons and now Claire James, I'm giving them a security of knowing that their mother is always going to be of sound mind. I'm giving them security of knowing on Friday and Saturday night, most nights mom and dad are home. If I need them, I know exactly where they are. And they are both of sound mind. And

Jane Ballard (01:01:33.802)
and they can get in the car and come get me.

onstead (01:01:35.66)
they can come get in the car and come get me. So I've gained that, I've gained their trust, you know, as far as for that, that I'm, you know, that I'm always the same, you know, it's not like, I wonder if mom's been drinking or, you know, she's gonna come home or is she going to embarrass me in front of my friends? Or is she going to be, you know, so hung over for two days or just even the day, you know, the next day that, you know, she's going to be short and irritable.

Jane Ballard (01:01:48.587)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (01:02:02.283)
Yes.

onstead (01:02:05.332)
You know, and so I feel like that Jackson, I know, and same with Cannon, you know, when they started driving and going out and they got into their high school years, you know, when they would, they come home, they'll come in, they'll talk to me, we'll have a conversation. Maybe they'll be telling me a story. You know, I have that connection with them that I know if I was still drinking, they would probably be avoiding me. But because about midnight, if I was still up, it means that I'd had too much to drink.

And that's not a conversation, it's not fun to have a conversation with. They just wouldn't wanna engage. So it would probably be avoidance. And so that is one thing that I've gained. And then also, of course, just my marriage is so much better and so much more fulfilling than with alcohol. So definitely focus on what you're gaining and not what you're giving up, because it is...

Jane Ballard (01:02:39.038)
Right, they wouldn't want to engage with you.

Jane Ballard (01:02:53.634)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (01:02:57.971)
Yes, like that.

onstead (01:03:03.853)
And those are just to name a couple, but it is.

Jane Ballard (01:03:07.114)
Right. Like the relationship with your children and the ability to provide for them emotional safety and consistency is, yes, it's priceless. It's like a beverage can't even compare to that.

onstead (01:03:14.656)
Yes, it's priceless.

Yes.

No, no. And I know Jackson, whenever he, whenever he left and had moved off to his first apartment and we were saying, well, do you miss home? And he was like, well, yeah, I kind of do. And he was like, I mean, and he was like, I mean, I'm like, I'm sorry I was raised in a, you know, happy loving home, but I kind of miss it. And so just for, you know, an 18 year old to say that, it's

Jane Ballard (01:03:45.435)
Yes!

onstead (01:03:50.484)
the best thing in the world, yes. And I mean, my only regret is just not doing it sooner. I did have a lot of guilt, I think a lot at first, whenever I first got sober, which that's one of the things that you need to work through. And I highly recommend, that's one of the great things about treatment, it's kind of working through those emotions, but that I did drink more whenever they were younger and stuff. I've let that go now. And I mean, of course there's always been a little bit. It was.

Jane Ballard (01:03:51.778)
the best feeling.

Jane Ballard (01:03:56.637)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Ballard (01:04:01.452)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (01:04:06.455)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (01:04:15.486)
Yeah. It was probably a grieving process, you know, like some sadness that if you could do it over, you would do those years differently, but also acceptance that it was just part of your story and you've grown because of it, and now you have this beautiful, authentic relationship with your children.

onstead (01:04:24.736)
Absolutely, absolutely.

onstead (01:04:30.678)
Yes.

Yes.

onstead (01:04:36.852)
Yes. I think too, you know, whenever I was drinking, you have so many different surface friendships, you know, that you're friends with because, you know, you get together and so it was kind of hard because we hadn't lived here very long. Of course, it's hard to make new friends just as it is as an adult as it is. It was kind of harder when we were here, I'd had claret Jane and then not very long after I got, you know, I quit drinking.

Jane Ballard (01:04:52.2)
Mm-hmm.

onstead (01:05:07.784)
When you're not, when you're drinking, you're always looking for somebody to drink with you and still things to have a drink, get together. And so it's easier to make friends. So I don't want to paint this, you know, rosy picture like, oh, you know, there are definitely some challenges of not drinking. And so there were a couple of times that, you know, are probably more than a couple that I would kind of get a little down. Like, I don't really have a lot of friends here. You know, you kind of feel left out and not included, but at the same time, you're not reaching out or trying to make.

Jane Ballard (01:05:11.586)
to get together and have a drink with.

Jane Ballard (01:05:23.086)
Yeah.

onstead (01:05:37.684)
you know, plans because that just doesn't sound fun, you know, as far as getting together just to small talk and when the main activity is drinking. And so, but I think that, you know, I've had prayed for, you know, God to bring me, you know, just good friends and I have, you know, so I don't have a huge group, which is kind of more like I like it. But I have, you know, three or four.

Jane Ballard (01:05:40.711)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (01:05:47.446)
right?

Jane Ballard (01:06:03.787)
Yeah.

onstead (01:06:06.988)
very authentic friendships that, you know, are very close, very good, good friendships that I know that I could call them and they would be there in a second and same for me. And so that is kind of, you know, another trail.

Jane Ballard (01:06:18.722)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (01:06:23.838)
It's challenging. Yeah, it's challenging and there's, you know, hard times of loneliness or sadness or feeling left out. But ultimately what I hear you saying is that you can make friends, it just takes longer, but they may be more authentic relationships and friendships anyway.

onstead (01:06:32.055)
Yes.

onstead (01:06:40.056)
this. Absolutely. That's exactly you said it. You said what I was trying to say, Jane.

Jane Ballard (01:06:48.79)
And, and your idea of fun changes, you know, like maybe your idea of fun is like going to lunch with someone and then going to get a pedicure instead of meeting up for happy hour or going to a wine bar or something. Yeah.

onstead (01:06:52.98)
Absolutely.

onstead (01:07:01.08)
Absolutely. Yes. Yes, yes. And I mean, and also, you know, your priorities shift. You know, I mean, before, when the priorities would be, you know, having an active social life, you know, the priority is, you know, being home and, you know, eating a good dinner and maybe watching a movie or favorite show and just, and tracking where my kids are and keeping up with them. And, you know, that's, you know, what my priority is.

Jane Ballard (01:07:26.651)
Yes, yes.

Jane Ballard (01:07:30.93)
Yes.

onstead (01:07:31.068)
We're fortunate enough to have the lake house too. That's, you know, a big, it's fun. And ironically, our favorite place to go is Vegas. So, to not go.

Jane Ballard (01:07:35.71)
a big source of fun and satisfaction.

Jane Ballard (01:07:42.598)
Yes. My first time I ever went to Vegas was with you and your parents when I was 15. Yes.

onstead (01:07:47.604)
Hell yes, yes. So before I got sober, it was one of my favorite places. And so, you know, we've gone with several different couples. We have really good friends, Lisa and Jeremy that we love to travel with. We go to Vegas with them. We went to Scotland and England with them last spring.

And so traveling is one of our things, but it is ironic that Vegas is still our favorite place, but I love it. And I love it just as much not drinking as I did drinking, actually more because I can get up the next day and feel good to go, you know, I love my slot machines.

Jane Ballard (01:08:15.053)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (01:08:19.754)
It's still fun.

Jane Ballard (01:08:23.83)
Yes!

Jane Ballard (01:08:27.708)
Yes, and you can remember every bit of fun too. It's not foggy the next morning.

onstead (01:08:30.208)
Yes, yes, the concerts, the fabulous restaurants, the shopping, I love it all. So, yeah.

Jane Ballard (01:08:35.982)
Yes, that's awesome. Well, Katie, thank you so much for sharing your story. It takes a lot of courage to get on here and talk about things that feel vulnerable, but there's so much beauty and meaning to be found in your story. And I think so many people will feel inspired and validated and reassured that they're not alone and there's hope.

onstead (01:08:42.986)
Yes.

onstead (01:08:54.2)
Thank you.

onstead (01:09:00.36)
Yes, I hope so. And that was, you know, my whole reason for accepting your invite to share my story. And yeah, if anybody ever has any questions or needs any help getting through it or, you know, I'm always here, reach out to James, she'll get you in touch with me or anybody that's

Jane Ballard (01:09:07.708)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (01:09:18.794)
Yes. Yes, or we'll put your Instagram handle in the show notes so people can reach out. They can DM you. Yeah. All right.

onstead (01:09:24.66)
Yes, yes, yeah, for sure. It's worth it, I promise. It's not easy, it's a lot of hard work, but it's absolutely worth it. It was one of the hardest and the best things that I've ever done in my life. Thank you for doing this podcast and helping. I'm so hopeful for this Sober Curious movement. I will say that, you know, I think we did talk about this, but I feel like that it's showing,

Jane Ballard (01:09:38.375)
Yeah, that's awesome.

Jane Ballard (01:09:46.86)
I am too.

onstead (01:09:53.544)
So with the consumerism, it kind of follows different movements. And now, whenever I first got sober, it was hard to find a non-alcoholic beer, definitely not a mocktail. And now, I mean, every restaurant that you go to, there's always one or two non-alcoholic beers, and there's always two or three mocktails. And so I think that speaks volumes for where the movement's going. So.

Jane Ballard (01:09:57.168)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (01:10:03.895)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (01:10:13.367)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (01:10:19.402)
Absolutely. And the non-alcoholic beers actually taste really good. The IPAs are really good. Yeah. Yes. I love you so much and thank you again. And, um, I'll talk to you soon.

onstead (01:10:22.752)
They do. They do. They do. So I love you, friend. Thank you for what you're doing.

onstead (01:10:32.008)
Okay, sounds good.