S1 E31 Championing Wellness for Women Who Do It All | Hint: Less is More

Jane Ballard (00:02.965)
Hello, hello, welcome to another episode of mindful sobriety, the podcast. And I'm super pumped today. We have my new friend on today, Megan Swan with Megan Swan wellness. Megan, good morning. Thank you for being here.

Megan Swan (00:18.894)
Good morning. Thanks, Jane. It's an honor.

Jane Ballard (00:21.845)
Yes. Well, let's just jump right in. Maybe tell a little bit about who you are, where you are in the world and what you're up to.

Megan Swan (00:31.086)
Yeah, well, I am currently still in Chiapas, Mexico, which is the very southern part of Mexico. I've been living here for the last 15 years. I won't get too far down that rabbit hole, but short version is at 30. I went on my own Pray Love. But the twist is I'm still on my first stop 15 years later. And there's a lot of chapters in between.

Yeah, it became, you know, Mexico became the basis of a major evolution for me. And, you know, I met my now husband, we have two children. But we're actually just about to make another

well, make our first major move as a family and move to Canada. So it's like a very, it feels like a very potent high vibe, lots of things happening time for us and I'm excited.

Jane Ballard (01:21.845)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (01:34.869)
that I love the way you described that as potent. Like there's a lot going on. It's concentrated and lots of good and probably lots of stress and excitement and all the things.

Megan Swan (01:46.35)
Yeah, I'm just, I mean, I'm glad I have this sort of, not sort of, this foundational non -negotiable basis of prioritizing my own self -care. And I mean, we can get into it, but I was actually just thinking last night, you know, I've...

quit drinking six years ago. And so I can already, I can tap into like what Megan 10 years ago would have been doing to deal with all this stress. And it's completely different now, you know, like now it's, you know, I got to move my body every day and I've got a guided meditation in and eat well and try and sleep, although that's increasingly, you know, I had to wake up in the middle of the night with, don't forget this or whatever.

Jane Ballard (02:14.869)
Mm -hmm.

Jane Ballard (02:28.725)
More!

Jane Ballard (02:33.557)
But just the fact that it's Monday morning at 8 a for you and you're up recording a podcast, I wonder 10 years ago you may not have been up to that Monday morning at 8 a during a really stressful period of life.

Megan Swan (02:47.63)
Yeah, well, I probably would have been faking it, you know, not feeling great and hoping that you couldn't tell that I felt hungover and all that.

Jane Ballard (02:51.029)
Yeah.

Yes, so six years, that's a long time.

Megan Swan (03:02.222)
Yeah, I'm excited actually to get to the seven year mark because, you know, even from the medical side of things, we know basically your entire body reproduces every cell every seven years. So I'll be like completely, absolutely. I mean, I obviously feel very alcohol free six years in, but yeah, I'm just curious. And every year there's been sort of a...

Jane Ballard (03:16.917)
Yes.

Megan Swan (03:28.846)
revelation or like, I feel like it's a different level of clarity or feeling better and in very small ways as time goes on.

Jane Ballard (03:38.805)
Yes.

Yeah, that's amazing. That's something I've noticed. I'm just in my second year right now. It'll be two years and two years total in September. And after the first year, I thought, okay, well, that's it. I'm where I'm going to be, but I feel like it continues to get better. And I continue to gain clarity and feel more awake. And I'm excited that that just continues on as the years go by.

Megan Swan (04:06.35)
Yeah, for me it's like, yes, clarity, but also it's almost like this clear energy. Like, you know, I'm not high energy all the time. I'm actually quite an introverted person, even though I'm quite public and I can muster. I do enjoy, you know, socializing, but I also really need like me time and time for rest. But I just, sometimes I just have like so much energy.

Jane Ballard (04:20.405)
Yeah, same.

Megan Swan (04:33.902)
it's, it's exciting. Like I feel it better. This is I'm 45 and I've never felt better in my whole life.

Jane Ballard (04:34.453)
Mm -hmm.

Jane Ballard (04:41.685)
Yeah, that's awesome. Such an inspiration and I think women need to hear that. I'm 45 too and I feel better than I've ever felt.

Megan Swan (04:52.622)
Alright, we're 45 babies.

Jane Ballard (04:54.837)
Yeah. Well, I'm curious about your alcohol -free journey and kind of what that looks like for you, how you found healing, and also what was the turning point for you where you said, I've had enough, I'm ready to do this.

Megan Swan (05:12.878)
Yeah, so I mean, it kind of started.

maybe six years before I actually quit. I mean, it was kind of a long, long time considered. Some of the highlights, like obviously when I got pregnant with my first child, you know, that's socially enforced, you know, you stopped drinking and I was, you know, it's not like that was challenging for me. It was just sort of this natural break that the universe gave me. And then, you know, I was very committed to breastfeeding and then I had another son and then I breastfed him. So there was kind of like this four year

Jane Ballard (05:34.805)
Yes.

Megan Swan (05:47.68)
window where naturally like I might have had a sip of red wine here or there in that period, but honestly, it didn't hit the same. Like my body was very clear that no, you know, pregnant breastfeeding didn't taste good, didn't feel it was like no.

Jane Ballard (05:54.869)
Mm -hmm.

Megan Swan (06:02.894)
But at that time I was still, you know, had this romantic idea of like getting back to like not only, you know, going clubbing, I was a huge club girl, you know, drinking a bottle of red with my husband over dinner on a Friday, you know, all these things that to me were like, you know, like previous Megan and.

Jane Ballard (06:03.477)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (06:23.989)
Yeah, like the sophisticated wine culture kind of thing.

Megan Swan (06:29.166)
Yeah, I mean, we have a very beautiful wine room that we built into our home here. And ironically, I think my husband drank a little bit of wine. But when we met, like it was really because of a lot because of my own interest in I taught him about everything I knew about wine. And we traveled a lot around that. And we still do. So that happened. And then at the same time,

I just was really, yeah, I was still, I was a yoga teacher, I had a studio and in a lot of ways I was very healthy, but just as a new mom, I wasn't sleeping as well and I just felt like not the best mom that I could be. And I also was going on my journey of getting certified to be a health coach through the Institute of Integrated Nutrition and.

know, so I was cutting out all sorts of things, processed food, you know, trying less gluten, less sugar, you know, lowering my caffeine intake, just awareness around all these things. And quite frequently I would do, and I was running with like groups of women, these 21 day detoxes or three month detoxes. So it was, it was no problem to quit for an extended period of time, but it was always under this guise of, yeah, but I'll get back, right? Yeah.

Jane Ballard (07:46.485)
Mm -hmm.

Jane Ballard (07:50.197)
Yeah, it's temporary.

Megan Swan (07:52.558)
And so then I had this, I did have this clarity and I would say I actually probably on some level, maybe even in my thirties knew, you know, my relationship was problematic with alcohol. in that I was just in this like rinse and repeat, like this is way before I had children rinse and repeat of just having sometimes way too much, but more often than not just a little too much where I would say something that I would either remember or not and just feel really.

Jane Ballard (08:20.693)
Mm -hmm.

Megan Swan (08:22.318)
crappy the next morning, like physically not feel well, wouldn't have slept of course, but just this like heart wrenching, not feeling good about what I said and feeling like I was out of control and shame and guilt and just all that was like a pretty normal part, at least on a weekly basis of my relationship with alcohol. So I knew I wanted to dial it down. And so I had this...

Jane Ballard (08:32.981)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (08:44.053)
Yeah.

Megan Swan (08:50.126)
you know, I, I, my terminology would be as a high functioning alcoholic. I had this brilliant idea, which essentially is a version of denial called mindful drinking. I'm going to do like, I love cause your podcast is called mindful sobriety. So I tried mindful drinking, which was, you know, I think.

Jane Ballard (09:02.197)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (09:07.221)
Yes, you tried mindful drinking. I mean, why not try it?

Megan Swan (09:12.622)
A lot of women do they have these rules, you know, like, okay, well, I'm only going to drink, you know, two nights only on the weekends or three nights a week, and I'll never have more than three glasses of wine or like whatever the rules are for you that makes it makes you feel more comfortable that you can trust yourself with it. But obviously, if that's necessary, probably there's something deeper you need to be

Jane Ballard (09:29.589)
Mm -hmm.

Jane Ballard (09:36.629)
things deeper, things, times you have not trusted yourself and you're trying to figure out how to trust yourself. And maybe if I follow these rules, I'll be able to find that balance.

Megan Swan (09:47.694)
Exactly. And yeah, so I tried doing that for a year in part, of course, my husband and I have this sort of like backward, you know, we got together, we were together for several years, and we had two children together, then he

like surprised me with this flash mob orchestra proposal in one of the most beautiful, you know, Zocalo's, which is like the center of a town in the mountains here with fireworks and, you know, drones film the whole thing.

Jane Ballard (10:09.493)
my.

Megan Swan (10:19.63)
And so we got married after my kids were two or three and five, I think, when we got married. So in my mind, I've always grown up, you know, I have to have a champagne flute on my wedding day, right? Couldn't really imagine like that happening. Now, mind you, I didn't, honestly didn't drink a lot that day, but it was more of this. And looking back, I even wanted a bunch of photos with that, which I wish we hadn't taken them. I mean, I'm glad there's a few, but I wish there wasn't as many that I have a champagne.

Jane Ballard (10:26.068)
huh.

Jane Ballard (10:32.757)
Yeah.

Megan Swan (10:49.584)
flu in my hand.

Jane Ballard (10:51.701)
Yes, but there was something like this icon. It's like iconic that you got to have a toast with this beautiful glass and this bubbly liquid and it just seemed to embody celebration.

Megan Swan (11:02.446)
Yeah, that's somehow magical. And it is, I mean, I think you can honor that magical, you know, version of it, but it doesn't have to have alcohol, like, especially now there's so many really delicious options. But, you know, that wasn't on my radar yet. So I

Jane Ballard (11:20.469)
Yeah.

Megan Swan (11:21.87)
Yeah, so basically I got married in 2018, February 18th or 17th. I think it was the 17th. And we, yeah, from then I think, so my date is March 18th, which was Monday after St. Patrick's Day, which, you know, I wasn't even in a place that St. Patrick's Day was being celebrated, but I'd had.

Jane Ballard (11:31.029)
You

Megan Swan (11:51.182)
way too much white wine with my girlfriend who is also a mom and our kids were playing all day by the pool and you know and then I drove home and I should not have driven home and I mean I'm happy to get into the details of that for very fortunately nothing actually happened but I definitely had a very clear wake up and ultimately

Jane Ballard (11:58.197)
Mm -hmm.

Megan Swan (12:13.134)
The next morning, I just, like, that was yet another line. I swore as a child growing up with another high functioning alcoholic as a father that I would just never cross. I swore I would never cross these lines as a parent. And so to me, that was like the hard line. Yeah, exactly. Like, and I just wasn't being the parent that I knew I was capable of being. And

Jane Ballard (12:31.669)
you had broken your own trust again.

Megan Swan (12:43.538)
So that was the last time I woke up hungover and feeling shameful. And I will say, I only said to myself, I'm going to quit for a year and see how it goes. Like at that moment in time, I don't think I would have been capable of making the decision that this is forever. But even like a couple months in, it was clear to me that I would never, never go back. Like it was...

Jane Ballard (13:10.453)
Never go back.

Megan Swan (13:11.758)
It was life changing on so many levels and so many I couldn't even have predicted.

Jane Ballard (13:17.205)
Yeah. And I think that's how it works is saying you're not going to do anything ever again, feels daunting. You know, if someone told me I could never drink a Coca -Cola again, I might have some feelings about that. But I think once you start down that path of like, okay, let's live with, let's live for a year without it. And then you realize how fulfilling that can be. The idea of forever isn't really that big of a deal anymore.

once you get started. But sometimes we need to give it a time limit to get started.

Megan Swan (13:50.126)
Yeah, and I mean, I think that's a lot of how I work with clients too. Like it's, it's has to be a little bit of trial and error to feel like you have to feel and see the difference for yourself to be convinced that that's how you want to live your life.

Jane Ballard (14:00.853)
Yes.

Yes, it's like an experiment.

Megan Swan (14:06.51)
Exactly. So it was a very successful experiment for me. And yeah, I mean, I do think it's one of the things I'm most proud of in my life that I made that change for myself and for my kids. Now I model a different norm than I grew up with. And yeah, I just want them to know that you can celebrate things without alcohol. You can...

Jane Ballard (14:08.277)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (14:17.525)
Mm -hmm.

Jane Ballard (14:35.637)
Yes, you can experience joy and fun and excitement.

Megan Swan (14:37.806)
Yeah, you can really enjoy a fine meal without wine.

Jane Ballard (14:42.837)
Yeah, absolutely. So I'm curious about how parenting has changed without alcohol because I think that a lot of times parents drink because parenting is so stressful and it's hard to actually carve out time for ourselves and to prioritize time where we can pour back in, but it's easy to pour a glass of wine.

or have a drink while you're with your kids or while you're just doing everyday life. And so it feels like that's a way to kind of create a little buffer. But I think ironically it ends up making parenting harder. I'm curious what you notice.

Megan Swan (15:25.166)
Yeah, I mean, exactly that. Just completely opposite what I had internalized as the story about mommy wine culture or, you know, that wine drinking being sophisticated and all these things. Like, if it ever made me seem more sophisticated, it was a very small window at the beginning of the evening, right?

Jane Ballard (15:34.485)
Mm -hmm.

Jane Ballard (15:47.669)
Yeah, yes.

Megan Swan (15:49.87)
You know, a big part of it for me also was I remember having like being very hurt as a teenager, having like a serious conversation with my mom the night before, like kind of like a heart to heart where, you know, I, in my mind kind of, you know, took a leap of faith and was really honest with her about something that I hadn't thought to share with her before. And then the next morning realizing like she has no recollection of the conversation and.

You know, I'm not, you know, my mom is an incredible mom and for multiple reasons has really dialed her relationship with wine way down. But there was a period, you know, post divorce, a lot going on that, and that was the norm. That's how everybody deals with, that's how we're taught to deal with stress.

Jane Ballard (16:33.269)
Mm -hmm.

Megan Swan (16:43.086)
and we're taught to celebrate and we're taught like pretty much anything, whether it's good or bad, the solution is a glass of wine.

Jane Ballard (16:51.093)
drink. Yeah, the end of the day you want to de -stress, have a drink. Yeah. So you grew up in a family... sorry, go ahead.

Megan Swan (16:56.142)
Yeah. So I particularly like, sorry. I just wanted to say like, in terms of parenting, like another really important thread for me, because I've done all of this work health wise to improve and like, you know, cut out all those other what I call everyday toxins, sugar, processed foods. So I felt like so much better. And I felt like I had more control of my anger as a mom or my impatience.

Jane Ballard (17:23.157)
Yeah.

Megan Swan (17:25.326)
But that was like one of the final things. And I won't say that I'm like now the perfect mother by any means, but I certainly have like way more pause and, you know, tools to react differently and respond.

And also I think I'm way more responsible with repair when, you know, I don't show up as the best mom because I'm, you know, tired or stressed for other reasons or whatever. But when I was drinking, it was like I had such a short fuse.

Jane Ballard (17:54.453)
Absolutely.

Jane Ballard (17:59.093)
Yeah, like that restless, irritable discontent feeling was always there. And then we drink to kind of lower the edge, but then we have less filter as well. And then the next day it's even worse.

Megan Swan (18:14.158)
Yeah, because you don't sleep well and you're like, just always like a little spent, you know, and it's like this compound effect over time.

Jane Ballard (18:20.085)
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. But I love what you said about repair. Like now we don't have to be perfect. Nobody is going to be perfect. We are going to have ruptures in our relationships with our children. We're going to say the wrong thing. We're going to lose our temper, but we can go back and own that with them and have a conversation and let them know, Hey, I messed up. I wish I had done that differently. I'm so sorry.

I think it makes all the difference.

Megan Swan (18:53.134)
Yeah, and I mean, also I really instill in my boys that it's a good thing to have this whole spectrum of emotions, you know? Of course there's better ways to express them and demonstrate them. But I also, you know, like I think I grew up in a culture where I think, arguably, most women are...

raised that it's not appropriate to be, you know, visibly annoyed or angry or, you know, certainly yelling.

Yeah.

Jane Ballard (19:26.293)
Absolutely. Or even in a bad mood or resting bitch face, you know, like there's so many different ways that our culture enforces, like be polite, be agreeable, be kind, be bubbly and happy. And that can feel really stifling.

Megan Swan (19:49.07)
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I know even from a young, for me, it was always a lot easier to go to anger than to be sad about what was going on in my life as a teenager. Because it seemed like I had more, it seemed like emotion that you could control more, which of course you can't necessarily. But I also feel like, well, I've since learned, you know, anger.

Jane Ballard (20:02.645)
Mm -hmm.

Jane Ballard (20:10.997)
Yeah.

Megan Swan (20:18.318)
is adrenaline. Anger can be kind of addictive. It can kind of like feel it can that charge feels better in some ways than a good cry. You know, like I till this day, I have to like really allow myself to be sad about something. It doesn't come up that way. Usually it manifests as

Jane Ballard (20:34.901)
Mm -hmm.

Jane Ballard (20:40.181)
Yes, yeah, it feels like there's this illusion of power behind the anger and less vulnerability than sadness.

Megan Swan (20:49.742)
Yes.

Yeah, and so now, I mean, years into sobriety, like I've really, I mean, I've developed like a healthy relationship, I would say, with rage, and you learn how to channel it into just, you know, what I want to get done in this world and for positive things and just listen to it. Like, okay, why is this situation so charged for me? Like, what, well, obviously some sort of boundary. And so is that something I didn't communicate or,

Jane Ballard (21:02.133)
Mm -hmm.

Jane Ballard (21:07.893)
Yeah.

Megan Swan (21:22.574)
is, you know, do I have the right to have that boundary? Or maybe is this a relationship that I should, you know, that's not working anymore? Or, you know, just a lot more awareness and thoughtfulness instead of just reacting.

Jane Ballard (21:34.293)
Mm -hmm.

Jane Ballard (21:39.381)
Yeah, yeah, it's data and data that you can get curious about and then use in an effective way.

So I'm curious about your journey in your career, getting into wellness, advocating for women. It sounds like when you first moved to Mexico, you were teaching yoga, right?

Megan Swan (22:02.702)
Yeah, you know, when I came down here with my Ip Krei love dream, it was, you know, I'll teach English and yoga. That's how I'll kind of get around the world and we'll see how it happens. And, you know, my, my plan was Mexico, then Bali, which, you know, I have a feeling now I'm going to be there with you maybe. Yeah.

Jane Ballard (22:20.949)
You've got to come.

Megan Swan (22:23.726)
And then let the universe take me wherever. That was kind of my idea. And so for the first two years, I did teach English mostly. And then when I realized that I was in love with my husband and I'm going to be here a lot longer, I was very clear that I did not want to teach English my whole life. That was just for travel. So I opened my first yoga studio and yeah, that's...

Jane Ballard (22:43.445)
Yeah.

Megan Swan (22:50.734)
I joke that that's kind of yoga was my gateway drug into the wellness industry because at that point I very much still lived this, you know, Ashtanga yogi, yoga teacher, yoga studio owner, but I definitely still enjoyed my red wine on the weekends for a good while there.

Jane Ballard (23:09.941)
Yes, yeah. Well, and what a dream. I would love to open a yoga studio, like, and you just did it, like, in your 30s. Like, did you love it?

Megan Swan (23:21.902)
Yeah, well, I mean, I credit Mexico and the culture and just the experience of, you know, really getting out of sight of your comfort zone in a different country. But also I feel like Mexicans in general are very entrepreneurial and there's not a lot of judgment around like, yeah, I'm just going to try this, this idea and like, maybe it'll work and maybe it won't. And if it doesn't, I'll try something else. And there's not a lot of identity tied up with like the one idea, you know, it's just.

Or someone wants to do it for a season. It's like, I make gingerbread cookies with beautiful decorations and every child's name on it. And they work like crazy for several months and make decent money because no one else is doing that. And then it's seasonal. I feel like there was a lot less red tape.

Jane Ballard (24:08.789)
Yeah.

Megan Swan (24:16.014)
And people, like everyone's like, cool, great. I didn't get any of this. Ooh, are you sure? That sounds risky. Like, you don't know a lot about business. You've never done that before. Like all the things that I would have been showered with. And to be fair, like it's way more difficult, certainly in somewhere like Toronto, which is where I came from. Also, it was way more saturated, the market, whereas here I was like maybe one of a couple of yoga studios at the time.

Jane Ballard (24:37.045)
Yeah. huh.

Jane Ballard (24:46.037)
Yeah, yeah. But I love that. Like, it's almost like this culture of openness and curiosity rather than like, in the US, people will be like, well, what if someone gets hurt? Like, are you going to have the right kind of liability insurance? And what about this and that? But there it's like, yeah, why not try it?

Megan Swan (25:06.286)
Yeah, no, I totally had a waiver here sign here.

Jane Ballard (25:09.909)
Yeah, sign here please. Okay, so tell me a little bit about what you're doing now in the wellness space.

Megan Swan (25:19.822)
Yeah. So, I mean, I did the health coaching certificate and I quickly realized, like, I was interested in supporting women beyond health. Like to me, health is like a basic minimum. You know, you want to be in a state of wellness and it's in this like ever evolving state. There's never a final destination. It's just, and I like the word optimizing. So I work in terms of physical, emotional,

Jane Ballard (25:32.149)
Mm -hmm.

Megan Swan (25:50.063)
mental and spiritual optimization. And in the last several years, I've really focused on female entrepreneurs in the startup space or, you know, other coaches sort of in the wellness space that want to be supported with their wellness while they build their business. And in some cases, I also do a little bit of business coaching where I teach, you know, systems and structures that really help.

to do that in a way that's in alignment so that you can continue, you know, feeling your best and not, you know, burning out.

Jane Ballard (26:24.949)
Right, because I feel like a lot of times marketing and being an entrepreneur is just a 24 -7 job. But if you're a woman or if you're a woman who's raising children at the same time, it can feel like there is then no time to actually practice what you're preaching and take care of your own wellbeing, spiritually, physically, mentally, cognitively, emotionally.

Megan Swan (26:51.31)
Yeah, and it's this, you know, self -fulfilling prophecy, right? So the more that you prioritize yourself, the easier it is to set boundaries, like really maintain a healthy growth mindset that's essential for entrepreneurs. And also the internal boundaries where, no, I'm not working on Sundays or I'm not going to be online on the weekend. And like I'm prioritizing my family in this block of time so that it's not this sort of

Jane Ballard (27:06.292)
Mm -hmm.

Megan Swan (27:21.264)
I think otherwise the layers can get really mixed up and it's really hard, especially for women, because back to how we're socialized, that we're supposed to take care of everybody else first, or maybe you're managing from society or from your family of like, how are you not prioritizing your children? And like, I just learned very early as a mother.

Jane Ballard (27:33.397)
respond immediately.

Megan Swan (27:44.878)
in order to be my best mom, the best mother I can be, I need to have something that really excites me. I need to have my own project and outlet for creativity. And also that I would want to model that for them.

Yeah, I mean, I think they really respect what I do and, you know, they're not always happy with the healthy desserts I make. I think at this point they've been doing it for 10 to 12 years. They've been living with my healthy desserts. But yeah.

Jane Ballard (28:22.101)
I mean, I bet you they'll be making healthy desserts for their kids someday.

Megan Swan (28:26.478)
Well, I mean, it's small wins, right? So now if they go and have something that's extremely processed and full of sugar, they can't finish it. You know, like for a minute they'll be like, my goodness, like this is delicious. And then they'll be like, wait, the headache and no, I can't finish it. You know, like, so they don't really want to. Yeah, exactly. So it's, you know, I think I've built in a lot more awareness for them and you know, where they take that.

Jane Ballard (28:44.117)
Yeah, now my stomach hurts.

Megan Swan (28:54.222)
is also has to be with their own agency. You know, I can't, can't as a parent be stressing about every single situation they're going to be in making decisions because, you know, we all have the right to make, I really go by the 20 80 rule. You know, you really want to focus 80 % on things that you know support your wellbeing and then 20 % of the time we have to live life.

Jane Ballard (29:19.477)
Yeah, you want to experience pleasure and indulgence and have fun.

Megan Swan (29:26.286)
Yeah, and I use it for a tool also with clients, not someone, I mean, I argue with the kids too. It's an opportunity. Like, you know, go have the cookie you're craving, but be all there, you know, like don't have this layer of self guilt or you're like, eat it fast because you feel bad about it. It's like, no, like.

Dissect the bite, you know, what is the texture? Do you how much butter do you think they use? Like what is it? That's so amazing about this thing that you're craving and take back to your you know, that's a lot of data that you can use to then Feel very clear about why 80 % of the time that's not what you're eating

Jane Ballard (30:06.741)
Yeah, that's so true. And I like that idea of like allowing yourself the ability to savor it. Don't sit there and feel guilty the whole time you're eating it and take away from the experience. Like set aside the time and really let yourself just savor it and be like, ooh, I taste the sweet and the savory and the butter and the chocolate and the little flakes of salt, you know.

Megan Swan (30:32.302)
Yeah, you can tell like my one of my vices is like homemade chocolate chip cookies.

Jane Ballard (30:37.749)
That's what I was thinking, like that sounds so good with a little bit of salt in there and some butter and.

Megan Swan (30:43.154)
I bet you have a good recipe.

Jane Ballard (30:46.645)
Yeah, the tollhouse recipe, the tollhouse chocolate chip recipe with salt on the top. Yeah, but I think you're right. Like there is a place for pleasure and I think eating foods that bring pleasure is also a way to communicate and not communicate to connect with people and to build community and to celebrate. And we don't want to miss out on that. We don't have to miss out on that to fill the

Megan Swan (30:49.454)
Ha!

Jane Ballard (31:16.085)
healthy and feel good.

Megan Swan (31:18.574)
Exactly. I think, yeah, it's important. Also, in order for all of these wellness tools and a wellness lifestyle to feel sustainable, as soon as you feel like there's, that it is rules, opposed to just decisions that you make because you know that you feel better. There's a lot more.

Jane Ballard (31:38.197)
Mm -hmm.

Megan Swan (31:41.39)
it's a lot more likely that it's going to be hard for you or feel restrictive. And if it feels restrictive to me, that's not sustainable.

Jane Ballard (31:50.389)
I agree. Yeah. Yeah, it feels like it takes up too much space in your brain and you have to be thinking about it and you have to be exercising this discipline all the time that really doesn't bring joy. I like that how it's making choices because you know they make you feel better in the long run. And so you're choosing to do it. There's freedom in it.

Megan Swan (32:14.126)
Yeah, I mean, I like the term intuitive eating or conscious consumption in all forms. You know, I think the more that you can tune in to your own inner wisdom around everything, like, am I really hungry? Like, maybe I'm just thirsty, have a glass of water first and back to, okay, I'm going to have the cookie. But if I eat it slowly, I'll probably just need one. Whereas if I wolf them down because they feel bad about the fact I'm allowing myself to have a cookie,

Jane Ballard (32:17.749)
Mm -hmm.

Jane Ballard (32:32.341)
Mm -hmm.

Megan Swan (32:42.734)
you probably have three because you're not really paying attention to what you're doing and you're just kind of there's anxiety involved.

Jane Ballard (32:49.429)
right. Or if you're breaking a rule to have the cookie, you're going to restart the rules. Therefore, while you're breaking the rule, you better have three because you don't know when you're going to get another one. Whereas if you're more intuitive with it, you can have another one whenever you want.

Megan Swan (33:00.782)
Yes.

Megan Swan (33:06.926)
Yeah, exactly. I mean, I think it's just to your point, takes up so much less mental energy. And that's another thing I focus on a lot of like the all the ways that we have energy leaks, if you will, if we're not being clear with our intentions and our desires and, and really tuning into our intuition.

Jane Ballard (33:09.365)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (33:30.453)
So your husband also, he's in healthcare. He's a surgeon, is that right?

Megan Swan (33:35.886)
Yes, he's a vascular surgeon. We met because I was his private English instructor. Yeah, so that's the whole story. Yeah, it's a book. It's coming out in December. But yeah, so we met that way. And I mean, the joke is, you know, now it's my 12 year old son who's his full time English teacher. But he...

Jane Ballard (33:43.157)
Okay. Sounds like a movie or something.

my gosh.

Megan Swan (34:03.854)
At the time, I wanted to prepare for a conference, I think, in Jacksonville. And so I was very specific in terms of the vocabulary we're working on and making him feel more comfortable to present his specialty in English. And so, yeah, it's an interesting rub because we come from somewhat different worlds in the perspective of health and wellness. But I think over the years, really, it's come to we have very, very similar.

Jane Ballard (34:14.581)
Yeah.

Megan Swan (34:31.79)
very similar senses.

Jane Ballard (34:34.005)
Yes. Yeah. So he comes from the medical model, evidence -based. But I think even the medical model is now looking more into preventative care and how to incorporate that into healthcare.

Megan Swan (34:48.686)
Yeah, we're calling it value based care. It's kind of like the future of medicine, not only the US system, pretty much the majority of private and public medical systems are arguably on the verge of collapse, certainly not lowering the rate of chronic disease, which could be something that they do if the medical professionals are paid based on

Jane Ballard (35:05.173)
Yeah.

Megan Swan (35:18.894)
the state of health of the patient versus whatever they're giving them or prescribing or operating like the system currently. Yeah, so I mean.

Jane Ballard (35:26.133)
Yes, yes, the system does not want to reimburse for preventative care. They get paid for diagnoses and treating diagnoses.

Megan Swan (35:39.374)
Yeah, and arguably, I mean, a couple things. One, they are putting out fires, you know, like they don't actually have the capacity on, you know, it's not necessarily something that they're not interested in supporting patients with. It's like how things are currently set up and they're timed, you know, limited amount of time with each patient. And then again, all this pressure of how they're actually being compensated. It's not that they're

not interested, in some cases, I would argue it is that they're not really, that's not how they're educated. I mean, even my husband would agree that, you know, doctors are experts in sickness. They're not necessarily experts in health. And like, thank goodness we have people like my husband who is an expert in diabetic foot and limb salvage. And, you know, these issues, which are, you know, diabetes and obesity are on the

the rise pretty much around the world. It's something that if you're about to lose a limb, like at that point you need a specialist that that is their expertise.

Jane Ballard (36:40.501)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Jane Ballard (36:50.837)
Absolutely. Yeah. And I don't think it's the individual physicians. I think it's a systemic issue that has just been created by multiple different factors, you know? And now this is where we find ourselves, you know, 20, 30 years into managed care and all these different systems that have led to it.

Megan Swan (36:54.254)
And I'm also...

Megan Swan (37:06.062)
Yeah, actually.

Megan Swan (37:16.878)
Yeah, and I wrote a post in my sub stack on, you know, now is the time to find before everyone else figures out this is what they need to do, a functional medicine specialist in your area, like someone who is already aware.

that there's a great value in having like a holistic conversation about all of your symptoms and what's going on and is, you know, really interested in working with a health or wellness coach to help you change these habits. You know, they're using, they're prescribing lifestyle medicine, if you will, changes in habits. And they're obviously much more interested in, in a viewpoint that is long -term and preventative versus your average doctor who

you know, they're doing what they can with what they have and how they've been taught. And it's, you know, managing acute symptoms. They're managing things, looking at the body in very isolated parts versus, you know, all the systems are deeply interrelated. And, you know, I know that, you know, in your practice, just someone can be physically getting sick because of,

Jane Ballard (38:18.613)
Hmm.

Megan Swan (38:31.758)
a mental stress or something going on in their life that they don't know how to process or emotionally deal with. And it's physically now manifesting in everything from maybe a heart issue or it's like making it really hard for them to make healthy decisions for all sorts of reasons.

Jane Ballard (38:37.877)
Absolutely.

Jane Ballard (38:49.941)
Right. Or even just migraine headaches or just fatigue from being in a chronically stressed out state, you know, cortisol and adrenal glands going off and all of that, you know, stress. Yeah.

Megan Swan (39:04.782)
Yeah, and it goes both ways, right? So someone who has like a physical manifestation of chronic migraines, like that affects your mental health pretty quickly. Like you can't live your life and it's depressing. Or you have you start generating this high anxiety, like when is the next migraine going to hit?

Jane Ballard (39:17.397)
Absolutely.

depressing.

Jane Ballard (39:26.421)
Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I feel like physical health and mental health are one and the same. You know, we make these separations, but really it is, it's the same thing. You know, it's the whole person.

Megan Swan (39:41.646)
Yeah. So I, I recommend to most clients that, you know, it's not to discredit, like definitely still go to the traditional medical system and get an opinion. but don't always take it like a hundred percent at face value, either get a few opinions or also go to a holistic practitioner, go to a Chinese medicine doctor, go to an acupuncturist, go talk to a wellness coach who might say,

Jane Ballard (39:52.565)
Yes.

Megan Swan (40:09.006)
Okay, but like, did they ask you about this, this and this? And you know, how about you read this and this, there might be another thing that the very least you can complement this treatment that is, you know, a prescription drug or whatever, with the idea that you're not going to be on it forever. Like, let's use the prescription drug to treat the acute symptom that is unbearable.

or very uncomfortable in your life. But let's also bring other tools in so that you can go on with your life with this idea that eventually you're not going to be on this prescription drug.

Jane Ballard (40:42.805)
just a bridge to greater wellbeing from different lifestyle habits.

Megan Swan (40:49.07)
Exactly.

Jane Ballard (40:50.676)
Yeah. Well, tell me a little bit about how people can either work with you or access your content. I know you've got a podcast and a book. It sounds like coming out in December.

Megan Swan (41:05.966)
Yeah, so I do have a podcast, it's called wellness as a way of life. The episode with you on it's coming out pretty soon or just came out and you can go check that out.

Jane Ballard (41:15.989)
Awesome.

Megan Swan (41:19.086)
do have a sub stack, which soon you can access through my website, I'm doing a few edits, but my website is meganswanwellness .com. And that's how you can find me on LinkedIn and Instagram at meganswanwellness. And I basically work with, you know, I do speaking events, I do in person events. But mostly I work privately with female founders, either

Jane Ballard (41:32.725)
Okay, great.

Megan Swan (41:43.63)
only optimizing their wellness or in conjunction with them running a business, starting a business and doing it with their wellness, doing it in a way that's aligned with their own wellness. And I also work with some modern companies that want to have, you know, like I'm the wellness Wendy, if you will, I don't know if you're a Billions fan, but I have seen it. I wouldn't say I'm a fan, but this idea of just having like an internal wellness

Jane Ballard (41:55.253)
Mm -hmm.

Jane Ballard (42:06.677)
Yeah.

Megan Swan (42:13.584)
So your team has, you know, like a bi -weekly check -in and someone to keep them accountable to the lifestyle changes they're trying to make.

Jane Ballard (42:22.773)
I love that. So it's just weaved into the team culture.

Megan Swan (42:27.022)
Yeah, and I think, you know, it's been very informative for the companies that I've worked with so far in terms of there's so many things that you can tweak that aren't, you know, doing a 180 and what you're doing. It's just even more intentionality and awareness about how and why you're eating something, for example, or, yeah, I mean, prioritizing sleep and

Some people, they just need a little help figuring out how they can get a better night's sleep. And it's not about a bunch of changes necessarily.

Jane Ballard (43:01.045)
Yeah, there are simple things that can be incorporated without this huge upheaval of life.

Megan Swan (43:07.598)
Exactly, because again, that's not sustainable. You're already living your life. You've got to figure out how to weave it in.

Jane Ballard (43:14.037)
Yes, how to make life feel more manageable, not figure out how to do more things.

Megan Swan (43:21.006)
Yeah, and I really believe, I mean, I go by this less is more approach. Ultimately, your wellness practices have to feel good. Otherwise, you're not going to keep doing them. You know, it should feel good.

Jane Ballard (43:32.245)
Yeah, yeah, the incentive to maintain the practices is that you feel good.

Megan Swan (43:39.054)
Oftentimes clients come to me and I'm like, well, what are you already doing? And the list, just listening to the list to me is exhausting. Like, wheats are so...

to some degree overeducated on this. And it's, it's overwhelming because you've got so many experts telling you so many things. And again, as high achieving women, we want to feel like, I'm like keeping up with the latest 10 wellness trends. Cause otherwise like FOMO and no, like you're going to burn yourself out on wellness practices. So let's, let's back it up and dial it down a little bit.

Jane Ballard (43:53.845)
Mm -hmm.

Jane Ballard (44:13.141)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (44:20.789)
That's a really good point. Like it's all about balance. You can even overdo wellness.

Megan Swan (44:27.118)
Yeah, really, I think you can. And it's kind of ironic at that point, right?

Jane Ballard (44:32.149)
It is like we want to overachieve every single thing. So wellness is not about overachieving. It's about just kind of slowing down and being present and listening to your body and listening to what kind of what you're craving. Maybe you're craving time away or rest or slowing down.

Megan Swan (44:55.63)
Yeah, I mean, ideally, I mean, it's all about awareness. I always give clients the cue of like, be the curious scientist in your own life. Like what's working? What's not like, what are you doing? Because somebody else told you versus like you have tuned in and decided that that's really for you. And then also little practices that you like, you don't have to do it exactly how everybody tells you. You can do your version of it and it's still better than doing nothing.

Jane Ballard (45:24.341)
Absolutely, you can make it your own.

Megan Swan (45:27.118)
Yeah, I mean, that's really how my own yoga practice has evolved over the years now 15 years into practicing yoga. Like, honestly, I never practice like your hardcore Ashtanga yogi is taught. You know, you're not a yogi unless you get up at 4am and do this series and your Yamarasa practice and all that.

Jane Ballard (45:40.341)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (45:46.805)
Yes, this 90 minute intense series.

Megan Swan (45:50.894)
Yeah, and I mean, to be fair, that kind of structure, I needed that back when I was 30. It was great. But I'm really glad that I found enough confidence to lean into my intuition, to make it my own, and so that it became sustainable. And to this day, it is one of my go -to practices, whether it's a breath work, like there's so many dimensions of yoga, it's not just a physical practice.

But yeah, I mean, I'm the weirdo that if there's a three hour lineup in the airport, like I'm doing some triangle pose or sometimes my kids are like, stop that.

Jane Ballard (46:31.157)
Yeah.

Yeah, do a few spinal twists or some breath work.

Megan Swan (46:36.782)
Yeah, little squat. It's way better for you.

Jane Ballard (46:42.805)
Yeah, absolutely. Well, Megan, it has been so much fun getting to chat with you today. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your wisdom and your experience with us.

Megan Swan (46:54.99)
Thank you. It's been, I really enjoyed the conversation. Appreciate you having me on.

Jane Ballard (46:59.669)
Yes, absolutely.