S1 E29 Healing Binge Behaviors and Emotional Eating with Coach Colleen Clifford of Pure Potential

Jane Ballard (00:01.916)
Colleen, hi, thank you so much for joining me today.

Colleen (00:06.278)
Thanks for having me, Jane. I'm really happy to be here.

Jane Ballard (00:10.012)
Awesome. Well, maybe to start out, tell me a little bit about kind of your story and your personal connection to binge behavior, particularly when it comes to your relationship with food and body and what that's been like for you over the years.

Colleen (00:29.67)
Yeah, thanks. This is a conversation that I would love to make normal. Binge behavior or otherwise known as emotional eating can carry a lot of shame with it. And the thing that, and for myself, that's where the place it started, but it was my way of coping that I didn't really know.

I didn't realize that's how I was coping. It started in my teens and it started with, you know, there's so much pressure for us, all of us to have a particular physical appearance, right? Where a lot of us, especially when you're a teenage girl, you're so your whole identity is how you look and you compare yourself with everyone. And so the whole body image,

Jane Ballard (01:15.1)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (01:20.508)
Mm -hmm.

Colleen (01:26.182)
I was always a petite girl and so a lot of my self -esteem from a child came from comments of people like, Colleen, you're so little, you're so cute. I was the small one in the family. And so nobody compliments you when you gain weight, right? Even if you do put on 10 pounds and start losing, people say, you look great, you've lost weight. And so we're getting these subtle messages our whole life about how we're supposed to look.

Jane Ballard (01:39.42)
Mm -hmm.

Jane Ballard (01:48.86)
Yes.

Colleen (01:55.334)
You know, that gives me a little dopamine hit, which for those who dopamine is that part of our brain that makes us feel good, right? But the sensory outward stuff that once we get it, it makes us feel good. So we want more of it and it can become addictive. So for me, as far as my emotional eating and then, and then later on we can talk more often to how I drank alcohol too. But for the eating portion, I grew up in a fairly large Catholic family and,

Jane Ballard (01:59.42)
Mm -hmm.

Jane Ballard (02:03.772)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (02:09.98)
Alright.

Colleen (02:25.062)
So, you know, not a lot of room for expressing our feelings. And so I was the fourth kid and I learned this through therapy, which I did in my thirties because for another reason. But, you know, I just learned that I wasn't, I didn't learn how to express myself. And so, you know, uncomfortable feelings or sadness or anger, I just stuffed it all. And so my way of coping was through eating.

Jane Ballard (02:42.908)
Mm -hmm.

Colleen (02:51.334)
and eating is easily accessible. You can do it without anyone seeing. You can do it kind of in secrecy. It gives you that dopamine hit because it feels good, it tastes good. They actually create food now that's addictive. Yeah.

Jane Ballard (02:59.804)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (03:10.364)
Yes, it's designed specifically for that. There's a term called the bliss point. It's designed to create this bliss point. So you want more.

Colleen (03:19.75)
Exactly. So a lot of these things are really, you know, kind of once you learn all this, you realize, I was kind of set up for failure or for, you know, going to this method of coping.

Jane Ballard (03:29.756)
Yeah, of course I'm wanting more and yes.

Colleen (03:34.118)
Yeah, so once I learned all this, I'm like, so, you know, so okay, Colleen, cut yourself some slack, right? But so, you know, and the thing about it is that these kind of behaviors, they do something for us, otherwise we wouldn't do it. And so they create a feel good feeling. And typically, I would do it when I was having an uncomfortable feeling. And so, you know, it made me feel good. And then but the, the, the

Downside to that is you feel good for a really short time and then you have all those feelings that follow after you feel guilty you're ashamed Depressed I mean just

Jane Ballard (04:11.036)
Mm -hmm.

Jane Ballard (04:15.42)
You want to hide it. You don't want people to know. And there's a fear of what if they found out. And it's almost like this double persona of people don't, they like me, but they don't really know me. So I can't trust that they really like me.

Colleen (04:28.454)
Exactly Jane and then the to to expand on that further. It's the fear of you know for me I wanted help so bad but I was so afraid to talk about it because I did not want to be judged as someone you know like like have the talk of what's wrong with you why can't you control yourself what you know what is your problem and and I'm finding that when I'm working with people especially on the emotional eating.

That's their number one fear. And the first thing they say to me is, I'm so glad you get it. Like you were there too, because people don't talk about it. And that's what I want to do in life. I think that's, this is my mission is to bring it to normalcy. Kind of like the whole mental health thing is like bring into normalcy that we're not perfect human beings. We need help on occasion and let's stop the judgment around it.

Jane Ballard (05:06.428)
people don't talk about it.

Jane Ballard (05:11.868)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (05:20.092)
Yes, let's de -stigmatize it and normalize it even so that people have language around it so that they can ask for help.

Colleen (05:30.95)
Exactly, Jane. And the other thing with the language around it is for me, I'm a lot of my journey was naming my emotions. I mean, I didn't even know I didn't have I couldn't even feel them put a word around them. I had stuffed all my emotions. And, and once I started to release them, and I really feel they do get stuck in your in your essence because yeah,

Jane Ballard (05:49.532)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (05:58.204)
absolutely.

Colleen (06:00.102)
And it's, it would be like, sometimes people will say, I don't know why I started crying when I, you know, I was having a conversation with some, well, because there's something inside of you that it resonated with that needs to come out. And it's, it's like your opportunity to cry and let it out or however you're going to release it. Yeah. So the,

Jane Ballard (06:10.524)
Mm -hmm. Yes.

Right.

And as one of many children, there's probably, you know, you're growing up and showing emotion requires you to take up space. And if there's a lot of kids and you're a busy family and you know, that's just normal functioning is that there's not a lot of space to sit down and talk through and process these emotions. And so a lot of times, well, most of the time people figure out alternative ways to cope and get relief and then, you know,

then there's a secondary problem.

Colleen (06:49.734)
And it becomes, yes, because in our brains, your pathway to how to operate just goes down this automatic road, right? And so it's your default road, just like driving home, you do it over 10 years, you could probably do it not with your eyes closed, but you don't have to think about it exactly. And you're absolutely right.

Jane Ballard (07:11.708)
Yeah, you're on autopilot.

Colleen (07:16.678)
in what you said with the family dynamics. And, you know, a lot of my processing was looking at my family dynamics. My mother had five children. She started raising, you know, having her first child at 18, four in a row. And I'm a small, our family is a small Catholic family. Imagine if you were, and in my era of growing up and I was born in the sixties, you know, large Catholic families, well, not just Catholic, but large families were more of a thing.

Right? And yeah, and my mother and father were young, imagine, right? So, you know, as I grew older, I learned to realize they were doing the best they could. And, you know, there's a lot of things that in our family dynamics that are really, you know, I'm so grateful for. I wouldn't want to ask for different parents or different upbringing. They instilled a lot of really great qualities in all of us.

Jane Ballard (07:46.492)
It was the norm. Yeah, seven, eight, good.

Jane Ballard (07:58.812)
Yes.

Colleen (08:13.35)
that we hold today and we are a family that stay together. We visit each other and it's just beautiful. I hear a lot of families don't have that opportunity. But yeah, learning to...

Jane Ballard (08:24.668)
Yeah, that's a good point. Like it doesn't have to be, it's not like this is a symptom of dysfunctional families. This is a symptom of functional families because that's just the way life is. We're all just getting through the day and surviving and taking care of responsibilities. So it doesn't mean that, you know, you had trauma or anything like that. It's just kind of the way life is. Nobody gets out of childhood unscathed, you know?

Colleen (08:52.838)
Absolutely, and you know, our parents do the best they can, I think, you know. You know, everyone has to maybe evaluate their own family of origin, but definitely learning how to.

Jane Ballard (08:57.724)
Thank you.

Colleen (09:09.03)
Feel my feelings was not really an option for me and So I learned as an adult and that's part of growing up right is taking responsibility stop blaming and just say okay now how are you gonna how are you gonna deal with this and It's a nice place to be and that's you know It's just really Feels good

Jane Ballard (09:13.052)
Thank you.

Jane Ballard (09:23.58)
Mm -hmm.

Jane Ballard (09:31.484)
Yeah, absolutely. Well, tell me a little bit about your work as a nutrition coach.

Colleen (09:39.302)
So as you can imagine, this is a huge part of my life, right? My eating patterns. Because I was raised in a big family, I was started the, had the responsibilities of sometimes cooking. And so I fell into a cooking role. And so nutrition became really important to me. And also it was a huge focus of my own obsession with staying small, right?

my eating, like how am I gonna, so I, a very young age was looking at calories, food, you know, getting into all of that. As I aged more further down the road, it was more of a nutritional aspect because, you know, times change too, right? Back in the 60s, 70s, 80s, no one was really talking about food like they are now. And it's just amazing how much more,

Jane Ballard (10:18.46)
Mm -hmm.

Jane Ballard (10:25.916)
Mm -hmm.

Jane Ballard (10:34.908)
Yes.

Colleen (10:36.038)
information we have out there for everyone. So I felt, yeah, so I, you know, my story, my career, how my work life turned into cooking for a living. And with the cooking comes cooking healthy. That's my, I'm known for the healthy cook. And so it's just part of, you know, learning that food is such, is medicine in life. And,

Jane Ballard (10:39.804)
Absolutely.

Colleen (11:06.022)
what we eat, it makes up our quality of life. And so I've just always had a fascination for that. I'm a nurturing type. I nurture through food. So it's my love language of my family and friends. And I love to teach people. I have cooking classes at home. I mean, I cook on a boat as a chef. That's my other job as well.

Jane Ballard (11:11.1)
Yeah.

Colleen (11:35.206)
kind of balancing two things right now. And it's fun to teach my crew how to cook as well, because it's been fun to help people learn different skills. And I've been doing it a long time, so it's fun to pass it on.

Jane Ballard (11:45.468)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (11:52.252)
Yeah, I wonder if you could share with our listeners a little bit about your career on a fishing boat, because that is such a unique career and a perspective that not many people know much about.

Colleen (12:04.966)
Sure, I'd love to. So going backwards into my 20s after high school, I went to college to play soccer and didn't have scholastic goals, but my drinking behavior became a huge problem for me. And unbeknownst to me, kind of like my eating behavior, I didn't know that it was causing me problems, but I wasn't going to class. I had to drop out of college. And so, you know,

It was like having no idea what I was going to do. I bumped into a friend of mine who also was a college, excuse me, a soccer friend of mine. And she had the same situation going on, but she was in WSU. I was at Western Washington. So, but anyway, she was working on a fishing boat and she's like, you gotta come fishing with me. I was probably 26, 27. I had no other thing going on. I was doing this boring job for myself.

and I was so excited for an adventure. So I joined her and went on the boat. This is about 87. And yeah, so I had no idea back then commercial fishing wasn't, it was actually just starting in the United States, really. I was probably on some of the first trawlers that started fishing over by Alaska in the Bering Sea. That's where we typically fish. And so, yes, I fell into that job.

Jane Ballard (13:28.636)
So what is a trawler? That's how ignorant I am about fishing is.

Colleen (13:33.19)
No, it's okay. No, it's I mean, why would you know, right? If you don't know anyone in the industry. So a trawler is a boat that has it trawls the it pulls a net behind it. And that's the trawl. And you know, some some small fishermen, poo poo us, our industry, but it's it's really we feed a lot of people in the world. But so the net, the net floats behind us, it can catch.

Jane Ballard (13:38.684)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (13:45.98)
Okay.

Jane Ballard (13:58.684)
I bet.

Colleen (14:02.79)
a large quantity of fish. And typically there's a factory inside the vessel. So we actually have a factory. So we catch our own fish. We're a catcher processor. So we catch our own fish and we process it inside our vessel. And that's what we do. And so there's a whole city inside the boat, so to speak. And depending on the boat size, it can range from, you know,

Jane Ballard (14:21.564)
Wow.

Colleen (14:31.366)
30 people to 150. So there needs to be a kitchen, there needs to be housing, there needs to be engineers, there's the captain, there's the factory manager. So there's all these departments and...

Jane Ballard (14:45.5)
Yeah, maybe like healthcare even if people will get sick.

Colleen (14:50.694)
Yeah, we do have a medic on board. We have a little hospital. Yeah. So.

Jane Ballard (14:54.684)
Yeah. And so your role on the boat is to cook and feed people.

Colleen (15:00.486)
Exactly. I'm in charge of the food and the housekeeping. We have a pretty big boat. We actually wax our floors, which when I started my job on this boat, I was like, we do what? This is a fishing boat. But it's actually considered one of the nicest in the industry. So I'm happy to be there. But yeah, it took me a while to get used to that. But now I like it because it looks nice.

Jane Ballard (15:13.596)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (15:25.02)
I bought it. And you're on the boat like for months at a time, right?

Colleen (15:30.47)
Correct, yeah, we do, we sign contracts. And in my younger years, I would work on the boat maybe seven, eight months a year, like literally in the boat. So I've spent many years inside a boat. And now as I'm getting toward the end of that career, I'm working maybe four months or five months inside the boat, which isn't too long. So it's nice to be able to phase out. I'm phasing out, which is great.

Jane Ballard (15:58.812)
Yeah. I mean, it sounds like a really long time to me. It's like a semester of school. But I guess when you've done seven or eight months, it's relatively a small amount.

Colleen (15:59.782)
Enjoy it, bud.

Colleen (16:10.214)
It is a small amount, but Jane, like a day can seem forever when you want to go home or if the weather's bad and you're trying to work in it. And yeah, it's a, it's really a whole different, like, it's like you're catapulted into another reality. It's kind of hard to explain, but you just, you're on the boat and that's where you are and life on land. Like I was on there at 9 -11, we had no idea what was going on because back,

Jane Ballard (16:17.66)
Good.

Jane Ballard (16:30.396)
Yeah.

Colleen (16:39.974)
then there was really no internet. I mean, there was internet, but not on our boat. And it wasn't for a few weeks that we were like, what's going on? Like we, we were floating around just fishing, but yeah, we're much more connected now. But back in those days, it was, yeah, we were, we were very disconnected.

Jane Ballard (16:45.34)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (16:53.756)
my gosh.

Jane Ballard (16:59.26)
It would be kind of like disorienting though. You're just kind of like detached from the rest of the planet and just out there on the sea.

Colleen (17:07.078)
Correct, and when you hit the dock, especially after a long period, I mean it's almost like sometimes you're afraid to leave the boat because life is moving so fast in the outside world. Getting in a car is just, whoa, traffic's going so fast. You're like, people slow down, what's the hurry? And yeah, it can be addictive in a sense too, like where you just work and stay on the boat, because it's kind of a safe place for some people.

And that is one reason it really resonated with me. I was escaping a lot in my earlier years and it was just a great way to get away from it all and work and make money. And nobody knew what I was doing. And I mean, the people on the boat did, but my family didn't really know what I was doing.

Jane Ballard (17:34.748)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (17:45.852)
You just leave life and go work and then.

Jane Ballard (17:55.228)
Yeah, yeah. Okay.

Colleen (17:57.062)
They're just like, when are you coming home? That's the question I've probably had a thousand times in my life. When are you leaving and when are you coming home? And I always say, I don't know. It's fishing. I can't tell you. It's frustrating. My family's been really great with it. Yeah, it's frustrating for us too sometimes, but.

Jane Ballard (18:03.324)
Yes. When do you come back?

Jane Ballard (18:11.42)
Yeah, yeah, you're like, it's not up to me.

Yeah.

Jane Ballard (18:20.732)
it would be. Okay, so that's how your career started out and then over the last few years you've kind of come into this coaching role.

Colleen (18:24.806)
I'm sorry.

Colleen (18:31.686)
Yeah, yeah. So, you know, as I've, you know, moved through my career on the boat, I've found I really enjoy teaching people. You know, I've taught some of my coworkers and watched them bloom and blossom. And so back in 2010, I received my Institute of Integrative Nutrition Health Coaching certification. Really wanted to be a health coach, but fear,

I needed to make a certain amount of income back then. No, coaching wasn't very, it wasn't like it is now. But I do love.

Jane Ballard (19:08.728)
And even like access to coaching and virtual communities, that wasn't as much of a thing either.

Colleen (19:15.942)
Exactly. And so I needed I didn't being self employed wasn't an option for me at that point. But I did have a dream of my late husband and I he was remodeling. We had a home that had the opportunity to have a lot of seats. So we were going to set up this kitchen where I could have in person cooking classes at the house. And because I wanted to teach people how to cook organically. You know, back then you couldn't order

there just wasn't the availability there is now in the stores or the awareness of how to cook beans or what's quinoa or just all those things. So I love now how available all that information is. Anyone can get it if they're curious. So I had my certification back then and always in my heart, something I wanted to do.

Jane Ballard (20:04.348)
Absolutely.

Colleen (20:13.51)
And, but I went back fishing and moving to 2022, 2021 with my drinking issue, I sought out some, I finally, I finally said to myself, Colleen, you can't moderate anymore. You've tried and it's not working. So, and this is leading in.

Jane Ballard (20:35.164)
And you weren't like a typical daily drinker. You were more just kind of occasional binges that you drank more than planned and had a negative consequence.

Colleen (20:40.39)
binge.

Colleen (20:47.11)
Exactly, or just within myself a negative consequence because of... Or not keeping my promise, even if it's only two or three beers, you know, it was... And a lot of people didn't know my struggle within myself because they're like, we didn't see a problem. And I would say, well, it was my internal problem. But so, yeah, so with the coaching realm, I...

Jane Ballard (20:48.732)
Yeah.

The negative consequence could be shame or feeling bad about yourself. Yeah.

Jane Ballard (20:59.9)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (21:05.276)
Yeah.

Yes.

Colleen (21:14.246)
I went through that process with this naked mind and was able to overcome my drinking for a second time actually. And then I went into the coaching with this naked mind for alcohol -free living. Then I decided to go back to, I did an Institute of Integrative Nutrition kind of brush up because they were offering prior coaches, because they had new information, especially around emotional eating, because that's one of my passions is the binge behavior.

Jane Ballard (21:40.796)
Yeah.

Colleen (21:44.102)
And so I did that to see what, you know, brush up, see what new things are out there that I might need to know. And incorporating all of this into one business that I can offer of different insights, so to speak. And so I'm really excited that I'm in a place in my life now where it's just opening up for me and...

Jane Ballard (22:02.492)
Yeah.

Colleen (22:11.366)
I think it's all interconnected. I mean, that's one thing that's taught in Joshua Rosenberg's, Rosen, I can never remember his name, it's so horrible, but he's, and this is gonna sound awful. I'm sorry for the listeners out there, but he's amazing. But anyway, he was the pioneer of health coaching. He started back in the day, but anyways.

Jane Ballard (22:21.948)
Rosen something, Sahl or Berg.

Sorry, Joshua. We'll link him in the notes.

Colleen (22:39.27)
you know, the idea that we are all individuals, but that to have a healthy whole life, we have aspects of ourselves like health, spirituality, exercise, connection, work, you know, in all these areas that if one or two are imbalanced, it can create, you know, just a skew. Exactly.

Jane Ballard (23:00.028)
It messes with the whole system. Yeah.

Colleen (23:03.59)
And so, you know, I love the idea of, you know, in the realm of what we ingest, a lot of people, which I've heard, and I was one of these, will be super healthy in one aspect, like, you know, it's always exercising, which I still believe that's very important to move, movement's important, right? What we eat is important. But then on the weekend, I would drink, or even drinking,

Jane Ballard (23:24.796)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Colleen (23:31.686)
two drinks and it would like sabotage and I didn't really put it together how sabotaging that can be just one incident of having four or five beverages of alcohol and

Jane Ballard (23:44.572)
Yes, that is can be totally normal if you, let's say you meet up with a friend, you have a drink and then you go have dinner and you share a bottle of wine and then maybe you go get a cocktail somewhere afterwards. That's easily four or five drinks and then you're kind of out of balance and you wake up and have all the feelings of guilt and shame and anxiety.

Colleen (24:10.31)
Yeah, and your body's hating you because it takes a few days to process to get that out of your system So then what do what do most a lot of us do we punish ourselves go to hot yoga? Go run five miles the next day. I mean whatever we do or nothing and then just feel awful. I'm over Exactly

Jane Ballard (24:13.34)
Yes.

Absolutely.

Jane Ballard (24:21.596)
Mm -hmm.

Jane Ballard (24:26.076)
or nothing, but feel like crap. But a lot of times there's this compensatory behavior in the two to three days following the weekend. And so by Wednesday we're feeling normal and good again, but then the weekend comes and we start the cycle over and over again. But on the outside looking in, we look like very functional, well -rounded people.

Colleen (24:40.134)
Exactly.

Colleen (24:47.494)
and a lot of societies doing it. So when you, you know, like for me, when I was questioning my drinking, and then I'd, you know, ask my friends, I mean, my sister's the only one who was straight up honest with me that said calling you out of a problem, like you shouldn't be drinking. Yeah, I know, right? Don't ask her if you don't want to know the truth. But, you know, my friends all candy -coated it, and you know, so I was like, okay, they all say I'm fine, so I must be fine.

Jane Ballard (24:50.332)
Yes!

Jane Ballard (25:03.484)
Leave it to sisters.

Jane Ballard (25:09.02)
Yeah.

Colleen (25:16.134)
know at the end of the day it's how do you feel and yeah.

Jane Ballard (25:19.548)
How do you feel? And the thing with friends, and I think I saw this a little bit in my own life is they don't want to lose their buddy that goes out and has margaritas with them or goes to the wine bar or, you know, it's like, Hey, what's the problem here? We're having a great time. And I think these friends, I mean, they still love you and care about you. It's just, they, they aren't the ones living in your body that can feel how you feel and know how it's impacting you.

Colleen (25:47.174)
Yes, exactly. Yeah, so going back to that idea of being wholesome and healthy, I realized that I was being hypocritical with myself. And at the end of the day, I just needed to eliminate the drinking. And so with the health coaching and the whole roundedness,

My idea was to...

to try to, you know, if someone's coming to me with their issues or they want to get healthy, and then we go over, you know, well, what's your diet? What are you drinking? What are you eating? And then just move from there. A lot of people don't really connect that the little bit of alcohol can really disrupt the whole plan of health and wellness. And so, you know, it's just awareness.

Jane Ballard (26:43.644)
Yeah.

Colleen (26:48.006)
A lot of it is awareness, curiosity, looking at our beliefs, right? What are our beliefs around our habits, what we're doing and how they serve us? Do they really serve us? What could we do instead?

Jane Ballard (26:51.452)
Absolutely. Yes.

Jane Ballard (26:59.324)
Mm -hmm.

Jane Ballard (27:03.004)
Right, like this openness to incorporate new information that may conflict with previously held beliefs and look at that with curiosity rather than criticism or self -loathing and just be like, hmm, why am I doing this thing? Is this really how I want to live my life? If we pause and we get off autopilot and really reflect, is this really how I want to live? Sometimes it's not.

Colleen (27:31.718)
Yeah, that's where I was.

Jane Ballard (27:32.38)
So it sounds like you kind of had that waking up moment. Or maybe it was many moments that led to it.

Colleen (27:37.382)
I did.

Colleen (27:41.286)
Yes, it was. And I, yeah, I'd like to think I had an epiphany, which is like, I had this like, okay, you can't moderate Colleen, you know, fortunately, my emotional eating, the way I dealt with my emotions has become very healthy. I'm in a really good space there. I have my tools and tactics, my awareness. I mean, I still have moments of being uncomfortable, but I know how to...

Jane Ballard (27:48.348)
Yeah, absolutely.

Jane Ballard (27:54.396)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (28:01.628)
Mm -hmm.

Colleen (28:10.758)
I've learned how to accept the uncomfortable feelings. But yes, I did have the moment of saying, Colleen, okay, but you know what? Life is great, Colleen. I think we've been duped into thinking we have to drink to have a good time. And it's just realizing that that's not really true. And the more I...

Jane Ballard (28:14.876)
Mm -hmm.

Jane Ballard (28:29.436)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (28:36.732)
Yeah.

Colleen (28:38.022)
The further away I get from it, the just the happier I am. And so just sharing that message, you know, one of the beautiful things with like your podcast and everyone's podcast and all the media out there now is that we, we can see that we're not alone in these, these things that we're going through. I guess that's so important. You're like, I'm not the only one.

Jane Ballard (28:42.94)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (28:54.812)
Yes. Yes. And people that we admire, yeah, we hear their stories and we're like, my gosh, they were in a very similar situation. They get what that's like. I mean, I can totally relate to your story and kind of realizing, okay, I can moderate a lot of the time, but can I moderate 100 % of the time? Maybe I moderate 19 times out of 20.

Colleen (29:08.134)
And we're not perfect.

Jane Ballard (29:23.932)
But what about that one time? Like I don't want to risk any times. And alcohol is one way to have fun with a very high cost. But there are actually other ways to have fun that don't have a cost, that have like a benefit and pour into ourselves and pour into others that are so much more satisfying. It may just take a little bit more creativity and practice to figure out what those things are.

Colleen (29:54.374)
And that's where coaching can come in. And you're right. I mean, it's all that. It's all of what you just said that was beautifully put. Yeah.

Jane Ballard (29:57.404)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (30:08.86)
Well, I'm curious, okay, with the binge eating type stuff, there are lots of different theories out there of, you know, what people can do. You know, I remember years ago, I had a client who, she was a member of, it was like a form of a 12 -step program. It was called Grey Liners or something like this. I can't remember exactly what it was.

but there was like a list of foods that they could eat. And if they ate foods outside this list, it was considered a relapse because it would typically kind of restart this binge type behavior. And to me, I feel like there's gotta be a better way where there's more freedom and intuition and even like openness to imperfection involved. And so I'm curious what your thoughts are about that.

Colleen (31:08.07)
Wow, well, when you were speaking, I was just cringing. So that's my overall gut thought about that. But I'm not an expert. I would love to study this and get the degrees behind myself. But just having my own experience and what I've learned through my coaching and just reading and what have you, having those restrictions,

Jane Ballard (31:11.836)
I'm sorry.

Colleen (31:37.414)
It's counterproductive, if you ask me, because it's putting, it's once again putting, it's like restricting your eating. You just become, yeah, and you become obsessed with that. And it's just, I feel like it's really unhealthy. That would be my answer to that one.

Jane Ballard (31:43.032)
huh, yeah.

Jane Ballard (31:47.772)
It's a framework in your head that's always there.

Jane Ballard (31:53.82)
Mm -hmm.

Jane Ballard (31:59.964)
It doesn't, well, I think that, you know, if you want to live a life that prioritizes like joy and freedom and experiencing new things, to me, that seems like it would get in the way. And I think most people want that. I think we all want that. And so it's almost like you're trading one set of eating behaviors that cause issues for another set that cause issues.

Colleen (32:30.278)
Exactly. And just being, just having all your thoughts on that. I mean, it's so nice to be free from thinking about food all the time and thinking about alcohol all the time. Like, am I going to have an episode? and so, you know, maybe the thought is to work on the beliefs around the behavior rather than what the, what it is your.

Jane Ballard (32:43.868)
I'm ready.

Colleen (32:56.838)
focused on, because you can be focused on gambling, shopping. It's just a way of not feeling your feelings, a distraction. And so I really feel, for me, that list is rip it up and throw it away.

Jane Ballard (33:10.588)
Yes, yes, and even.

Jane Ballard (33:17.564)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (33:20.988)
rip up that list. And so if there are certain foods that people feel like, well, if I eat this food, I just really have a hard time stopping, or I almost always eat more and then regret it. Any thoughts on that? I know one thing you just said a moment ago that struck me is that when you do feel uncomfortable, you have ways of being mindful and accepting that. And I wonder if a piece of it may be a self -compassion.

Colleen (33:50.95)
Yeah, beautiful. I think we have a tendency to, and these are kind of blanket statements, but it seems very common that we can always focus on what we're not doing right, what we're failing at, as opposed to what we're doing well for ourselves. And so the work is like, stop, you know,

Jane Ballard (34:06.748)
Hmm.

Jane Ballard (34:13.5)
Yes.

Colleen (34:18.022)
Try to divert your negative focus and focus on what you're doing right. Even if it's a small thing, what is it? Let's focus on that, not on what you didn't do. And the cravings and the, you know, I think definitely for me, I have some foods that I love, right? Jelly bellies, in fact.

I just started buying those again and I said, Colleen, you can't stop eating those. What the heck are you doing? Stop buying them. So yeah, definitely don't put the temptation there if it's something you really have a hard time stopping. That would be the first thing. But more importantly, look at your whole diet as a whole and maybe you're nutritionally imbalanced because sometimes cravings can be coming from not having a balanced diet.

Jane Ballard (34:40.924)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (34:46.78)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (34:52.956)
Mm -hmm.

Colleen (35:09.286)
meal. And I really feel like this is huge. Eating food, balanced eating was a huge game. It's one reason I had success in my drinking behavior of changing that. But it also helped once I started eating a plate of food that was well rounded. I stopped having cravings and even the binge behavior.

Lessened because I was satisfied my body had what it needed. And so that's kind of one of the first things to examine when I'm working with someone is you know, it's it's your eating behavior and What are you eating? How's your kitchen look and you know, then if someone has behaviors that are beyond my scope of practice You know, I can identify it right away. I mean, that's kind of our first conversation is what why are you here? What?

Jane Ballard (35:41.02)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (36:02.236)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Colleen (36:05.286)
What's going on for you? What is it that's bothering you? What do you want to change? And, you know, because I'm a coach, not a therapist. And so, you know, I would refer them to you. So, you know, just, you know, give them a few referrals or ideas.

Jane Ballard (36:10.46)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (36:17.116)
Yeah. And maybe even partner with a, yeah, and partner with a therapist and the therapist can work on kind of the psychotherapy aspect of it while you're coaching in terms of like nutrition and meal planning and stuff like that.

Colleen (36:34.726)
I love that idea. Never had that idea. That's great. Yeah, so I think, I mean, just from my own experience and just the clients I've worked with, those are things to consider that could help you in those moments of, well, could help less in those moments. And then I'm also very fascinated in the whole cravings aspect of our makeup. And I'm...

Jane Ballard (36:38.364)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (36:56.572)
Yes.

Jane Ballard (37:03.868)
Yeah.

Colleen (37:04.326)
I did one workshop on cravings. I would like to take that out. That's part of my idea of helping people because cravings can sabotage you. And just to share briefly, I had a craving yesterday to drink, which is amazing. I've been alcohol -free for three years. Beautiful sunny day. I put the music on. And back in the days when I was drinking, and it's like the

Jane Ballard (37:27.292)
Yeah.

Colleen (37:33.862)
the first summer sunny day for us in Washington. So that's like, the sun's out, open the windows, take your jacket off. And I wanted a beer. That's what I used to drink. And I thought, my gosh, Colleen, this is crazy. And it was a real craving, like, and these little thoughts, well, you can have one, no one will know. But I will know, you know, I'm having this conversation in my head. Yes, but I will know. And no, I'm not.

Jane Ballard (37:40.348)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (37:53.884)
Yeah, it's been three years. You're probably fine now.

Jane Ballard (38:02.62)
Yes.

Colleen (38:03.59)
that so just back off and so I just had that conversation with him I saw I was kind of laughing about it and so it's really neat when you can get to a point where

Jane Ballard (38:07.036)
Yes.

Colleen (38:16.678)
We're not afraid of those feelings we don't like that hold uncomfortableness for us. We just battle them head on. And I was able to distract myself. I watered the plants. I drink any non -alcohol beers. And so I grabbed one of those, and it was fine. So part of it is learning the tactics that work for you to redirect yourself so that you have success. Because...

Jane Ballard (38:26.3)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (38:34.748)
Yeah.

Jane Ballard (38:41.468)
Absolutely.

Yes. It's like you're like, be on the offensive with the craving, not the defensive. Like the defense is like, no, what if I have a craving? What am I going to do? I won't be able to handle it. And the offensive is like, well, just bring it on. I mean, I can handle a craving. I'll get curious about it and I'll, you know, let it be there and choose an alternative route.

Colleen (38:49.35)
Yes.

Colleen (38:54.406)
Yes.

Colleen (39:04.198)
Yes.

Yes, and that's something I work with with my the folks I work with is for them to gain their offensive plan. It's not for me to tell them, right? We all have to figure out what our offensive plan is. And so so they have a default to go to because the craving is going to happen. I mean, it's not like, let's face it, until we create that new road in our brain. And the beautiful thing is it gets easier and easier as we turn to, you know, turn to habits that are

Jane Ballard (39:16.54)
Yeah. Yes.

Jane Ballard (39:24.796)
Mm -hmm. It's normal.

Colleen (39:37.03)
serving us, you know, that those old pathways, you know, put the roadblock there, you'll start going, you know, your automatic response will start moving towards a positive direction, but you're still gonna have a branch in the road from a storm or something where it's like, there it is again. What am I gonna do? We'll just jump over it. And you, you know, when you have your toolkit, that's a phrase a lot of people like to use.

Jane Ballard (39:57.948)
Mm -hmm.

Colleen (40:06.342)
You can pull from that and just observe and be curious, like where did this come from? And for me, I was able to determine it came from, that's how I used to celebrate a sunny day, was get a buzz.

Jane Ballard (40:08.86)
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

Jane Ballard (40:20.412)
Yeah, it's like summer's here. Yeah. And now it's like, okay, I haven't. Yeah. You celebrate it in a new way. I'll have an NA beer and get outside and enjoy the sun.

Colleen (40:23.174)
Yes, and I celebrated it.

Colleen (40:32.326)
Yeah, so I, you know, good job, Colleen. I like to pat myself too. I mean, I'm a work in progress, just like all of us are. And, yeah. So, I would just, yeah, encourage that, like get your offensive plan going.

Jane Ballard (40:39.74)
We all are.

Jane Ballard (40:48.668)
Yeah.

Yes, absolutely. And I think remembering that cravings on average last about 20 minutes and every craving has a beginning, a middle and an end. And if you ride it out, it will peak and then it will gradually recede. And maybe it's going to last more than 20 minutes or maybe it's going to pass in 20 minutes and then it's going to come back five minutes later, but then you just ride that wave again. And the more we...

practice doing that, the easier it gets, we kind of build that muscle and gain a new skill.

Colleen (41:25.414)
said and it's true. I mean we're witnesses to that right and when you experience that you can share it because we've you know we've we've been on the one side and you know we've we're on the other side now and and it's just that's what gives you the the passion to share it with others.

Jane Ballard (41:27.036)
It is true. It is true. Yes.

Absolutely, yes.

Jane Ballard (41:52.636)
Yes.

Colleen (41:53.062)
so they can find their freedom from whatever hangup they have.

Jane Ballard (41:58.108)
Absolutely. We're not alcohol free. We're free from alcohol, you know?

Colleen (42:03.142)
I love that. Yes.

Jane Ballard (42:04.7)
Yeah. So Colleen, how can listeners get in touch with you?

Colleen (42:12.102)
Okay, so my business is called Pure Potential and my website I have is purepotential .health and that's the best way at the moment. I mean on there I have, you can see what I offer, cooking classes, I offer a free how to crush your cravings pamphlet, like how -tos. Yeah, so that would be the best. Shoot me a...

Jane Ballard (42:20.764)
Okay.

Jane Ballard (42:37.02)
That's awesome.

Colleen (42:41.03)
Shoot me a hello.

Jane Ballard (42:43.164)
Yes. And social media, are you on Instagram?

Colleen (42:47.974)
I am on Instagram. It's a new platform for me, so not a whole lot there right now, but that's something I'm going to be pursuing further down the road.

Jane Ballard (42:51.676)
Okay.

Jane Ballard (42:58.524)
Awesome. And is that also pure potential?

Colleen (43:01.094)
yes, it's purepotential .health.

Jane Ballard (43:04.284)
Dot health, okay, awesome. Well, Colleen, it has just been such a pleasure getting to visit with you. Thank you so much for sharing parts of your story and your wisdom with us today.

Colleen (43:05.702)
Yeah.

Colleen (43:17.83)
Well, thank you for having me, Jane. It was a lot of fun.